Fractured Axel

Tim, Ant,

Generally no problems with the new layout, only one or two comments:

1) Could we have a portaloo back up our end, it's a long walk to the ones down the bottom in between competitions (I already mentioned this to Martin)

2) Another 'corridor' between the STACK and big kite arena wouldn't go amiss, poor power kiters were yelled at by both us and them for walking inside with their boards and buggies.

3) Timetable - will do for next year, printer problems prevented one being posted up this year.


4) Thanks for the consideration about being next to the funfair, that would definitely have been worse.

5) As for our practice area being borrowed by the public, it seemed to work ok, no competitors complained to me at least.

All in all, thanks for making us welcome, and here is to next year

Hi Tim and Ant,

Thank you again very much for this year's event.
Good to hear that there are no problems with having a timetable near the main arena covering STACK events.

Regarding the layout of the festival site, it seemed generally very well done. You suffer from having so much to include:
* For a measure of privacy and security, the camp site has to be off to one side of the whole site. away from the public.
* It seems good to have the single line kites next to the camp site, as it is those who are keen enough to camp that generally fly and tend the single liners.
* The large inflatables looked a treat as the backdrop to the main arena.
* Regardless of whether the fair was there, if STACK were behind the main arena, then the view would not be so good, as there would often be two sets of kites flying around fast in the same view.
* The traders want to be where the action is, around the main arena.
* The fairground would not like being put at an extremity of the site.
* The power kiters need the runway.

- This just leaves the public flying area. It would have been nice to have this more central and accessible, preferably near the kite making workship. But try as I might, given the site shape, and the above constraints, I cannot see a convenient place to put it. (Perhaps next to the traders, at the north end of the car park - but then people would have further to walk between their cars and the central arena.)
Of course next year one could have a slightly better signposted route to the public flying area. (We only figured out its location because it was in the festival guide, and on Sunday I saw 3 non-competitors flying there). But given human nature, I doubt that the average child and parent would bother walking so far, and instead would fly in the viewing areas as happened this year. - That's life.

So overall, very well done.

Peter

I could'nt make Rougham so I can't comment on the arrangemnets but in general it seems to me that display / competition arenas always seem to be down wind of the inflatables and over-hung by single line bunting in a custom made turbulence generator, or is this just Portsmouth.

One of the things that always strikes me about festivals is that the viewing public will come and ask questions and take an interest in dual line flying if they get to see it being done. A dedicated practise arena for clubs and competitors is a good idea. Competitors get to work-up, flyers get to demo their stuff but keep the general public out. Once the GP are in, the space then deteriorates to a mess of tangled lines, £4 kiddie kites and oblivious strollers causing chaos the bubble of interest is then irrevocably burst . At some festivals its hardly worth bothering to bring your kites there isn't any point.

Sport kite flying isn't obvious to the GP, so a bit of help is necessary to get the possibilties across. Maybe a tannoy for commentary (not to compete with the main arena) people taking it in turns to walk round the edges and field a few questions and above all keep the space for the flyers.

If this sounds like a rant its not, I can appreciate the work and commitment that are required to organise and run a festival, its just that Sport Kiting needs certain specifics to get the message across. Don't supose anything will change though ho hum.

Miles,

At Rougham they really did have a practise area for sports kite flyers, which was in just the right place - far side of a very large site, but near the STACK arena, and so the general public generally stayed out of it. Moreoever there was a commentary at the STACK arena, and there were some Suffolk kite club people wondering around ready to explain and make introductions. So these parts were very well done.

- Dare I say, since you brought the other festival up - much better facilities than last year's Portsmouth. (But then Rougham has the space for many arenas.) Regarding Portsmouth 2007, I saw you there on the Saturday (the CR T shirt and flourescent DS are what I recognise you by). In the morning the winds were very light - circa 2mph or less, and you were flying a Prism Ozone between some main arena trade stands and another roped off area. By the afternoon the wind had picked up to about 3-8mph and you were flying the DS without the upper spreader in that other roped off area. - My question to you is, what was the other roped off area for, and was permission required to fly in it??

Peter

That roped off area at Portsmouth that was being used in the afternoon was specifically for dual line fliers and this wes marked as such on the site map.

Of course very few people used it and this was noted by the local organiser as well.

Regarding placement of arenas. This has to be done well in advance of the festival days - even at Rougham if the wind had been blowing in a different direction you may have had exactly the same problem.

All points duly noted and as I said this is not a rant:

Re Rougham: like I say I wasn't there if this was the state of play I really do wish I could have been there, top marks for organisation. I gather the weather could have been better so attendance might have been down and so therefore little GP interest perhaps? The formula was right I believe

Re Pompey 2007: Yup that was me (mere culpa I found a 40ft circle of space on Southsea Common and flew in it), at the time I wasn't sure what the second arena (downwind of all the inflatables) was being used for . It looked like an official display arena so I stayed clear to start with (not very comfortable demoing with my limitted skills). The power kite fraternity also used it from time to time (no problem with this but don't really want to be in the same airspace). When I saw a few FA faces there I checked to see if it was OK to fly in the arena and did for a bit till it was over run by the GP.

Lastly, I thought comments and observations were welcomed? I shall refrain in future

This discussion prompts a question:

When does a member of the public become a flier, and therefore acceptable to fly in the designated areas?

Swindon had a simple but effective mechanism, proof of insurance (STACK or local club membership etc) got you a wristband and permission to fly in the arenas.

Keithgrif wrote:

This discussion prompts a question:

When does a member of the public become a flier, and therefore acceptable to fly in the designated areas?

Swindon had a simple but effective mechanism, proof of insurance (STACK or local club membership etc) got you a wristband and permission to fly in the arenas.

Swindon 2008 and flying areas! - Wasn't that fun!?

For those who weren't there, the official access to designated flyer areas system was as Keith described - register and get a wristband. The flying areas were all clearly marked out and signposted....
* The single line area was next to the flyers' car park. As the single line flyers occupied that area from early morning, the general public generally kept out. So that part worked well.
* The multi-line area was over towards the trees at the far side of the single line area. - It wasn't the trees that were the fundamental problem. Perhaps because there weren't enough multi-liners who got there early enough, and perhaps because it was at the edge of the festival site, despite the ropes and notices, it was occupied by picnics and footballers.
* There was a public flying area behind the trade stands. Despite registering, because of the squatters in the official multi-line area, that is where we ended up flying on Saturday afternoon. On Saturday the wind was so light (0-2mph) that there weren't so many kites in the air, and there was some room for us by the large (oak?) tree (just careful not to land in it).

On Sunday the wind had picked up, there were more crowds and footballers and just as many picnics. So there was no room to safely fly multi-liners on 50-70ft+ lines, except in the main display arena.

Kitesociety wrote:

That roped off area at Portsmouth that was being used in the afternoon was specifically for dual line fliers and this wes marked as such on the site map.

Of course very few people used it and this was noted by the local organiser as well.

I wasn't sure if the general public multi-liners were allowed in there. Trying to think back to what the program said about permissions - but don't remember the details. Certainly we saw several quad-line flyers avoiding the spot - choosing the grass car park and viewing area to the south of the main arena instead.

- If others are like me, it comes back to what is acceptable as insurance. This is probably a topic for a whole new thread. As a simple example, my partner and I are now members of the White Horse Kite society, and as such registered as flyers at Swindon. But the insurance document on-line at their website appears to give us only 50% cover (you pay half and the insurance company pays the other half) for court costs and claims up to £5 million. And besides, would that have done for Portsmouth? especially as the insurance only covers club activities? - I don't know.
In contrast our household contents insurance covers us for the whole of claims up to £2 million (the insurers have confirmed that it covers sport kite flying). But is that any good for registering at festivals?

Keith, would all these insurance issues go away if we joined STACK?

Never mind, there is usually so much going on at festivals (and often limited space) that we do little kite flying there.

Whole heartedly agree with the proof of insurance idea btw Keith its something that has worked well at previous Swindon Kite festivals. Secondly if you fly sport kites or multi-line and you want to fly at festivals, you'd have to be mad not to get insurance as an individual on a specialist policy, not in this day and litagious age

Miles F wrote:

Whole heartedly agree with the proof of insurance idea btw Keith its something that has worked well at previous Swindon Kite festivals.

Yes - didn't seem to be any problems re: public invading roped off flying areas at Wroughton in 2007. (But there again, at Wroughton the viewing areas were more spacious, and in view of the rain storms, few were flying.)

Secondly if you fly sport kites or multi-line and you want to fly at festivals, you'd have to be mad not to get insurance as an individual on a specialist policy...

Don't know about my sanity. But definately confused. Need insurance that:
1) actually covers us
2) is recognised at kite festivals
Answers on a posting please.

(....Miles, can I ask what insurance you use?)

Presently I carry BPKA insurance (underwritten by Sun Alliance I think) which covers all forms of kiting, casual and festival flying. I have also applied for STACK insurance to cover the whole family this year.

I'd be very weary of relying on house insurance as I don't think it will cover festivals, competition flying or demonstrations.

Incidentaly Wroughton used the same flyer registration system 2006 (far more people better weather) and that worked well too. On the whole I think the system encourages responsibility and thats a good "selling point" to push with local councils when applying to hold these events.

Thanks for the info.

What is BPKA?

Miles F wrote:

I'd be very weary of relying on house insurance as I don't think it will cover festivals, competition flying or demonstrations.

My household insurers likened kite flying to golf, therefore claiming that we were covered for public activities even on official courses and in amateur competitions. The line gets drawn when the activity is professional or involves a vehicle (i.e. something covered by the road traffic acts).

Incidentally Wroughton used the same flyer registration system 2006 (far more people better weather) and that worked well too. On the whole I think the system encourages responsibility and thats a good "selling point" to push with local councils when applying to hold these events.

- Bet the councils are still scared by what the general public might do.

I'll PM you the details.

BPKA insurance only covers you for traction kiting activities, such as buggying, boarding, or kite wings, NOT non-traction based sport kiting.

Hezz