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audiorob
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Vf8 rules change suggestion

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:52 pm

I've watched all the videos for VF7 and I have very mixed thoughts about it.


Positive:
Lots of good fliers
Some neat tricks/combos
A lot of fliers entered
All videos on youtube = no quality bias


Negative:
Every routine is sloppy compared to normal ballet/tricks comp routines, some more so than others obviously
Everyone's routine looks rushed, no exception

--------


I really think that the 1 minute limit is far too short. I've watched the last 4 VF's and it's been VERY rare (2 videos) to see an entry that does not look rushed and full of tricks with sloppy entrances, exits and overall execution.

I am all for the idea of a full-out trick competition but based purely on observation it seems that there is a limit imposed on competitors that influences them to perform at a level much lower than they are capable. Simply comparing videos, or performances seen in person by many fliers to their VF entries is evidence enough. I know of many entrants who can fly for a good period of time without any "mistakes", showing some level of control, but their VF entries show quite the opposite.

Another aspect is that a 1 minute time limit also removes the ability for it to be true freestyle (doing what you want/love to do). If someone wanted to fly a basic precision figure they would likely not even have time for even a couple of tricks. Likewise there are flying styles that are put at a large disadvantage by the time limit simply due to the style of tricks which require more time to execute than others.

I really think that for vf8 the limit should be more flexible. 1-3 minutes seems more than enough.

I do not see any reason for keeping the videos at 1 minute anymore (previously I could understand bandwidth issues). At this time it puts many fliers at a disadvantage for absolutely no return at all.
Anyway this cake is great.
It's so delicious and moist
 
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Jest_of_EVE
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:10 pm

Have to agree, even if it was upped to 2 minutes.

Mark
 
Andy S
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:32 pm

If you can't do all your tricks in one minute, you know too many tricks ;)
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:42 pm

I also very much agree, well said. I wanted to put some nice corner cutting n lines between tricks, and fly like I normally would but then you find you've only got time for four tricks.

One minute stifles the style, 2-3 would be just right.
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audiorob
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:57 pm

Andy S wrote:
If you can't do all your tricks in one minute, you know too many tricks ;)


I suspect that's in jest but...

There are a lot of tricks where the execution and/or recovery time are very long (10 seconds or more) e.g.

Multilazy cynique
Yo-Yo Multilazy Cynique
Yo-fade
MultiSlot
Taz Machine Cascades
Multiple yo-yo
2-pop yo-yo on slow pitching kites
etc..

Just one of those tricks and you're out a lot of time. Now perhaps one could argue that the difficulty of those tricks is "worth" the time, but that is not what matters....

The whole idea of "freestyle" is about expression, and it's quite worthless if you're given a time limit to express yourself.
Anyway this cake is great.

It's so delicious and moist
 
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Tregolwyn
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:53 pm

I was slowly coming round to the idea of entering (except that I am rubbish and don't have a camera) but was a bit put off by the pressure to cram as many tricks into a minute. I am not good enough to do multiple cometes both ways followed by three or four other tricks at quadruple speed, my flying is more laid back and things like cascades/fountains take time. I would welcome a modest increase in time limit. Although I suspect we may then get entries that cram as many tricks as possible into two minutes. Perhaps a weighting towards artistic style might encourage a more "freestyle approach".

My only problem will be not crashing in two minutes. If entries continue to rise we could even have a first timer category (just for me).

Paul
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:22 pm

I'm heading off to North Wales tomorrow morning for a week, so I'll pick up on this when I return. :)

Thoughts in the meantime:
* It's not about 'cramming as many tricks in as possible' - The artistic aspect is as important as the technical - Possibly judging guidelines could help improve this side of it (anyone from Trick Thang able to help out by clarifying?) From my limited experience in the like of Trick Thang - I scored much higher than my ability should have allowed me to, mostly due to cutting around the window a bit more, using as much air as was available to me rather than trying to bang together trick after (in my case: poorly exectued) trick.

* Yes, 60 seconds is relatively short, and competitors' entries may seem 'rushed' in comparison to other vids they've produced, or seeing them in person - Part of the point of VF was to keep some level of 'constraint' to the flying to keep it as realistic as a competitive format as possible and have some form of pressure on the flyers. Most competitions are constrained in some form or other - doesn't the like of 'Hot Tricks' give flyers alternating 30-second windows to perform in? This would certainly give a much more hurried entry/exit for tricks in this case. I'm not against some 'tuning' of the time limit as appropriate - 90 secs or 2 mins possibly - but I'm not committing just yet ;).

In the meantime, I'm gonna try to pack my DS (Benson not Nintendo) and OS and hope that I can squeeze some flying in between showers at the holiday park.

Have fun - See ya all soon!
Davey
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bryan beasley
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:38 pm

I'm just happy to take part... whatever really.

Sitting trough 18 1 minute vidoes to score them is fine - sitting through 18 2-3 minute videos - not so sure.

I like the 1 minute. You have to be a bit more acute with your style definition, regardless of what moves you actually fly, and it does add just a touch of pressure.

Pick you're moves (or wing it freestylee) and fly-em the way you like. With more time to play with I suspect, there'd be many more entries with the same moves in - just in different orders. I'm not so sure that it wouldn't be a bit too much, you know... "I can do this - and this - and this... etc." rather than... "This is my style (today 'cos I'm this mood)... like it?.... Ah well, no fuss... Whatever"... You know?

Given an option, I'd keep it at a minute. But like I say - just happy to join in. Well done and thanks to everyone who gives me the opportunity to do so.

Bryan
 
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:23 pm

I was thinking of maybe taking part in VF8, but if I'm going to have to fly continuously for more than a minute without crashing, forget it...! :lol:
 
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Kamikaze
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Re: Vf8 rules change suggestion

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:37 pm

audiorob wrote:
I know of many entrants who can fly for a good period of time without any "mistakes", showing some level of control.




I am not one of them as I struggled to fly different tricks for one minute without crashing. So raising the bar further would mean that I would have to do easier tricks and repeat them over and over, or more likely not compete at all. So to prevent VF from becoming a place where the elite can show off and keep it open to all I believe that it should be kept at the original one minute which VF has been founded upon.

David Wilson
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audiorob
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Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:45 pm

What is all this talking about crashing?

Am I not aware of a rule where crashing disqualifies you?
Anyway this cake is great.

It's so delicious and moist
 
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sftonkin
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Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:37 am

audiorob wrote:
What is all this talking about crashing?

Am I not aware of a rule where crashing disqualifies you?


Perhaps not, but I'm not entirely convinced that spending a long time struggling to disentangle and relaunch is the sort of thing that will entice one's peers to vote for one. :lol:
 
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audiorob
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Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:26 pm

sftonkin wrote:
audiorob wrote:
What is all this talking about crashing?

Am I not aware of a rule where crashing disqualifies you?


Perhaps not, but I'm not entirely convinced that spending a long time struggling to disentangle and relaunch is the sort of thing that will entice one's peers to vote for one. :lol:



Everyone crashes sometimes. Just put a little more effort into it. You dont need to submit the first 1 minute of your flying. You can fly for hours and submit your BEST couple minutes (if the rules change).

If you're worried that crashing may lessen your chances of winning, then there's probably a good chance that if you crash THAT often, you aren't in the running to win anyways. In that case, if there were as many entrants for vf8 as vf7 then perhaps along with a time limit change adding a novice "class" as well would be good.

Really though, if you can't fly for 2 minutes without crashing, when you select the location, the wind, the kite, with no boundaries and the best 2 minutes out of your endurance.... then perhaps competing really isnt something you should be looking at just yet.
Anyway this cake is great.

It's so delicious and moist
 
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Kamikaze
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Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:44 pm

Really though, if you can't fly for 2 minutes without crashing, when you select the location, the wind, the kite, with no boundaries and the best 2 minutes out of your endurance.... then perhaps competing really isnt something you should be looking at just yet.


That is my point I cannot fly tricks for two minuets so I would be excluded from entering do you want VF for the select elite only.

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Craig
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Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:55 pm

Kamikaze wrote:
That is my point I cannot fly tricks for two minuets so I would be excluded from entering do you want VF for the select elite only.


Freestyle isn't just about centre of the window tricks, (well not in my book).