Fractured Axel

In this topic we can discuss how to improve the quality of our videos and how to take the maximum of our camera.

I spent many hours trying different codecs and I'm in trouble ones again....
I hope with the help of Gerardo we can find what's wrong and the info will be helpful for the others too.

My camera is old Lumix FX-01, video format -> MOV (848x840, 30fps, 13134kbps video bit rate). For the last 1 year I used ImTOO Video converter 5 to make the videos with 3K bitrate (DivX), which makes the videos >3 times smaller without visual difference in the quality. For some reason the DivX was the only format that Sony Vegas 8 Pro was able to import with sound and run smoothly (transitions & preview). Also, I use Neat Video Noise reduction and level correction for each video.
The Problem is that every Sony Vegas (I tried 8,9,10 & 11) performs differently. For example I can't import DivX into SV 10, but the H.264 is ok!
Maybe I have to install new codec pack (which one?) and start using the power of H.264.... I had some problems in the past (sound bugs & synchronization) with H.264 and today after converting with ImTOO 6 the picture lost some minor details.
Do you know any better software that ImTOO Video converter? I have versions 5,6 & 7.... and they ask for serial number after a while (firewall is ON!).
At the end I render all videos with MainConcept AVC/AAC .mp4 codec, Average bit-rate 4M, Max->5M, resolution 1280x720px (up-scaling!).... because YouTube makes the quality worst.... lowering further more the bit-rate and the quality.

I want to use Sony Vegas Pro 10 and render with H.264... but all files should be converted in lower bit-rate (H.264) for less space & more smooth preview while editing (probably?).

I'll not be of much helping you choose the right software, I don't live in the propietary/privative software, I prefer the open source/free/libre world, so, my software environment is the following:

Operating System: GNU/Linux, Fedora 16
Video converter: ffmpeg
Video Editor: Kdenlive

Cameras:
Panasonic Lumix ZS3, Video Format: 1280x720, 720p 30 FPS, MTS container, AVCHD/AAC Lite codec
GoPro Hero 2, Video Format: 1080p 30FPS, 960p 60FPS, 720p 60FPS, MP4 container, H.264/AAC codec

I've also tried some other cameras (Lumix FZ150, SONY HX10, JVC Everio, SANYO Xacti, etc.), in almost all cases, I download the video files from the camera's SD card, convert from the camera format to MOV keeping only the "intra" frames:

ffmpeg -i CAMERA.MP4 -sameq -intra IMPORT.MOV

then I use this file as the input to the kdenlive editor, this in turn builds a "proxy" that is low quality version of the input file used only during the visual editing process to reduce the hardware resources needed to edit large format (HD) files. Once I decided the clips I will keep, put them on the timeline, generated all the transitions and effects and added the sound track, I use kdenlive to render the output into a very large uncompressed AVI container in the same resolution and FPS as the input file (it is very important to avoid converting to higher resolutions or changing aspect ratio).
Finally I use ffmpeg again to convert from this huge uncompressed file to a format suitable for the final use of the video, for example, to upload it to YouTube, I generally convert to MP4(H.264/AAC) in 1280x720 (HD720) resolution with a 3Mbps bitrate. For VF, where we have to stay under the 20MB file size limit, I generally use the same video format as for YouTube experimenting a little with the bitrate until I get to a file just under 20MB, that is the highest quality possible without surpassing the 20MB barrier.

I know most Windows users don't feel comfortable using command-line tools, but I understand that the ffmpeg audio/video converter is available for Windows too. There is also a graphical tool based on ffmpeg for Windows called SUPER, I tried it once and it seems very simple to use and loaded with lots of options and doesn't require a separate codec pack.

I'd suggest to experiment with your preferred video editor until you find the right input file format, then simple use ffmpeg or whatever video converter you use to convert from the camera format to this "import" format, try not to ruin your video during the editing/rendering process and then convert again to the final format/s

In the end, it is important to understand the some of the details behind the editing process, file/container formats, codecs, etc and take the time to learn the tools at your disposal. I've seen many people using very expensive hardware (computer/camera) and even more expensive software only to produce sub-optimal results.

Hope this info useful to some other pilot.

Regards from Buenos Aires!

kostaaa wrote:

but all files should be converted in lower bit-rate (H.264) for less space & more smooth preview while editing (probably?).

Ideally you should keep all material for your edit at the highest quality possible and only downsize to a smaller size / lower bitrate as the final step.

Free Video Converters:
http://www.videotovideo.org/
http://www.oxelon.com/media_converter.html
http://handbrake.fr/ -> Great for DVD ripping too! Relatively Fast converter. Excellent Noise reduction. Pretty good program... and it's Free!
with 0.9.5 you can target the file size to 20MB for example... but in version 0.9.8 this feature is no longer available, so download the old version

How to render with Sony Vegas 11 or 12:
https://vimeo.com/40331922
Audio for VF:
44kHz, 160 Mbps bit rate..... every megabyte counts here, no real difference at the sound on most tracks

Useful link and Tutorials:
https://vimeo.com/help/compression

RoyReed, thanks for remind me that. I started to render at full bitrate again

Yan, can we send slightly bigger files? the last few Megabytes makes difference in the picture quality....

Thanx,
I have 23,3 mb with Sony Vegas.Then I must to use another converter to reduce the size.

There is no big difference in audio with Vegas Pro, but I found that my 17mb file is not as good as original 23mb one.Anyway its hard to make good SD from FullHD. So for VF I am shooting in HD mode and convert into SD quality...

Sure there no problem with DSLR camera..but I preffered my compact camcorder with UV filter only, but with longer battery life( we have cold winter here)
also Vegas dont like the mov files.

sooo...still learning yet:)

Anyway Nice soft.Easy and Free
For converting to other format I am using: http://www.bigasoft.com/avchd-converter.html

And I am totally agree with Gerardo.It was very helpfull for me..But I want to experiment.
At the moment its the best solution(Windows users be ready to spend night for learning:)) But its worked..
Last time I am just too lazy to do that routine again...

OGG
http://www.vorbis.com/

Being a container format, Ogg can embed audio and video in various formats.
finaly you get smaller files with better quality, comparying to other stuff.

FFMPEG
http://www.ffmpeg.org/

kostaaa wrote:

Yan, can we send slightly bigger files? the last few Megabytes makes difference in the picture quality....

i have been thinking about that a bit recently, gmail seem to have increased to size of file it will send to 25mb.

I suppose there might be storage issues... bigger files = more storage. Thats somthing I would have to discuss with KiteClique.com first.

TBH it would make it slighly easier for me because it would save checking the file size - provided it comes by email.....

just wonderying, why do not use vimeo for VF instead.

Yan wrote:

kostaaa wrote:

I suppose there might be storage issues... bigger files = more storage. Thats somthing I would have to discuss with KiteClique.com first.

VF is hosted by BlueHost - who proudly state: http://www.bluehost.com/

"Unlimited GB Hosting Space, Unlimited GB File Transfer"

So - its not a problem to host best quality/bigger videos.

Uploading them might be a drag tho ?

-Frazer

pink wrote:

just wonderying, why do not use vimeo for VF instead.

The primary reason is that Vimeo's "Basic" (free) account limits you to one channel, meaning that all VF videos would have to be clumped into one giant list. Youtube allows better organisation by way of unlimited playlists.

fworley wrote:

Uploading them might be a drag tho ?

No, that's okay. Increasing the limit to 25MB per entry is fine by me.

pink wrote:

just wonderying, why do not use vimeo for VF instead.

An issue with any video hosting site is that of copyright naughtiness. Vimeo have been notably lax in the past in allowing copyrighted music over people's videos but YouTube certainly isn't and a few too many pop tunes can have all of your videos and channel unceremoniously removed.

The sort of out-of-their hands hosting that Frazer is providing avoids this sort of problem.

Mike.

I think that may be a decision made!

Too late for this round - closing date is today.... but from round 26 file limit is 25mb.

Great!

I am glad to hear that. 25 mb its great No problem with overall quality in future.