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Tony S
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:36 pm

I'm not sure if we currently publish the compulsories ahead of time (Bryan ?) - I think some consideration if given for the days conditions - If not then I agree that we should.

I am not concerned that there are zeroes, but when you see what you perceive as a better overall performace scoring less than a "worse" one, but scoring lower due to a single figure being stuffed, then for me alarm bells ring a bit.
 
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Zippy8
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:54 pm

Tony S wrote:
I am not concerned that there are zeroes, but when you see what you perceive as a better overall performace scoring less than a "worse" one, but scoring lower due to a single figure being stuffed, then for me alarm bells ring a bit.

And that seems to be quite within the "accentuate the positive" attitude that TP embraces.

If the apparent negatives of a series of crashes within a routine can be overlooked in favour of the upsides of the good bits between them then ignoring something as trivial as Not Being Able To Do The Trick when required should similarly be glossed over.

:P

In all seriousness..... no, really..... picking practical figures for the conditions would probably be the best as otherwise you're looking into rule changes that might take you away from being TP any more. You could even talk to the flyers and ask what they think is practical.

Mike.
 
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bryan beasley
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:37 pm

I'm not sure if we currently publish the compulsories ahead of time (Bryan ?)


The 8 tricks we choose from were announced at the start of the season. The 4 tricks on the day are chosen according to wind conditions. There's been quite a bit of flier input as to which tricks we do, just not this weekend 'cos I was sat on me own-some writing the sheets out ahead of time - and at that time, there was plenty wind enough for rolling cascades, and we hadn't yet done this year the yo-yo multi or spike - hence the inclusion.

The 8 to chose from were picked to include a few bankers, a few more challenging and a few that were just plain tough - at least in the Masters category.

S'all good banter, keep it comin'.

Bryan

edit... I'm actually more concerned about the fact that each trick is potentially worth 10 points (40 total), whereas the entire ballet is only worth 10. It's because of the way we score the freestyle as opposed to the full TP ballet points in line with FR, US and DE. Needs looking at I think.
 
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SteveB
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Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:15 am

My feeling is that I have no problem in getting a zero for stuffing a trick that I feel I should be capable of doing but every problem being asked to do a set of tricks in which I expect to get zero for most of them...

I flew novice this year because I felt I justifiably could as I had never flown TP before. But I'm sure there are people out there thinking I shouldn't be flying novice. But what' the incentive for me to fly in a competition where I'm likely to zero most figures?

If the aim is to encourage technical excellence then surely the list should be stretching competitors to fly tricks well rather than scrape a trick at all. So lets see lists with more middle ranking tricks, with the occasional group 4/5 to stretch the very best fliers and some group 1 tricks from time to time too. I enjoy seeing the simple done very well!

And while I'm in full flow, I suspect its easier to give a meaningful score out of 10 for the easier tricks (as in I can imagine an axle that scored 0,1,2..10) but I find it harder to imagine what a 2 point yo-yo slot machine might look like because if te trick isn't completed it has to score a zero, but once it is it's probably hard to give it less than a 4. Of course I may be totally wrong about that, and to be fair, when I've looked at the TP judging videos I've tended to be more generous than the scores the video suggests.

Finally, I have to agree that giving the freestyle just 10 points seems very perverse and doesn't encourage fliers to work up a routine. IMHO the freestyle should be worth the same as all the tricks (i.e. 40 points). 20 for technical content and 20 for choreography perhaps?
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Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:43 pm

Been away for a few days so I've missed this thread until now. A couple of points:

1) the 'easy' tricks are for novice AND experienced, as Bryan and I am acutely aware that just because you competed for one year doesn't make you up to the level required for some of the thingy-watsit trick combos out there.

2) I agree with the scoring, I hadn't realised that the freestyle only scored the same as a single figure, I would prefer scoring along the lines of IRB where it's 50%, BUT I would expect to see a routine that worked with the music for that, not a random set of tricks, however good.

3) I have no problem with allowing the compulsary score to be best 4 of 5 or 3 of 4 or whatever.

4) As STACK ND, I have put my support behind Bryan's efforts 100%, but as I see it we only have 'juristiction' with the support of the fliers. So it's up to you guys what you want to do.

I'd personally like to see the day when a carefully written ballet for UK TP can be used without alteration in a IRB competition (and not just Chris). I do not believe the existing international TP ballet allows for a flowing freestyle ballet, and so fails in my opinion.
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bryan beasley
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Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:37 pm

OK, suggestions for next season (We'll run some trials over the winter leagues)...

STACK TP series - As this year with revised 8 trick lists for Novice and EXP. (as this year, no Masters). 4 from 8 as before scored out of 10 (8 for 2nd attempts), followed by 2 - 3 minute freestyle scored out of 20 for technical content and 20 for style / interpretation. This will mean 50% of the final score comes from the 4 imposed tricks, and 50% from the ballet - no weighting. This is different from other TP's around and about the globe because US, FR and DE all weigh in favour of technical score in the ballet itself, and the ballet score as a whole against the imposed tricks.

TO / TT (incl JCC) Ranking points - Top 10 in Masters league, next 10 in Experienced, the rest in Novice. Top 2 / bottom 2 promoted / demoted accordingly. It may be worth splitting this into North and South divisions. Ranking points allocated according to number of competitors at each event. ie. 8 fliers, the winner gets 8 points, 2nd place 7 etc. - regardless of format.

TO's - just for fun, no ranking points due to working out all the placings - maybe just 1st, 2nd and 3rd as is now. Seedings according to previous years standings.

VF - As is, but again with ranking points according to numbrers of competitors.

Comments?

Oh, and maybe a North vs. South fly off at some point, maybe at the winter league cup event. I'm also trying to pull a format together for a team event - teams of 4 fliers flying individually, and as pair and team in a number of comp formats at 1 event. Think Purley Posse vs. Team CR vs. NKG vs. team JoE. etc...

Bryan
 
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Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:57 pm

bryan beasley wrote:
Purley Posse vs. Team CR


I'd pay to watch that one...
Keith
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Positivo
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Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:06 pm

Funny that you divert soo far from TP and still call it that way. Why did you guys changed the scoring system? TP was/is about tricks, so the 9 tricks in the ballet weigh the most on the final score.
Flying now: B'zar 2010 STD and UL, B'zar 2011, BatQuartz, E2, Elixir, Modded Gemini, Flashlight, Sweety, Deepspace, Superfly.
 
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Vee
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Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:39 pm

It got changed 'cos no one liked the original TP enough to actually fly in the damn thing when STACK UK ran a season of it.

Also see many, many previous rants about the benefits/flaws of Tricking vs Freestyle. Please, please don't start that up again [-o<
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Jason
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Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:53 am

I've not ever competed in a TP but I judged two I think when we were doing it "by the book". The scoring was so complicated that I personally did not enjoy it at all, to the point where I, and other judges vowed, "never again"
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StuartB
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Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:18 pm

I can't argue with this as I wouldn't want to take on the organising myself. However, we'll have to accept that if we stick to our "easy" format then we'll never become competitive in international TPs (if that's anything worth doing).
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:18 am

Crazy copter, backspin cascade, Yoyo multi's? I am impressed, but by choosing level 5 tricks, you are asking for precisely what you get...folks missing tricks. Doesn't mean the best isn't winning...it means it's a must to get your compulsories right.

Now that I have paraphrased everything already said....

obi
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Jason
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Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:09 am

StuartB wrote:
However, we'll have to accept that if we stick to our "easy" format then we'll never become competitive in international TPs (if that's anything worth doing).

I don't know how different what we do is from a competitors viewpoint. There are still compulsories and a ballet that includes nominated tricks, I think it's just the scoring that we have simplified as it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I'm not sure how many UK fliers are interested in international TP's? From what I've seen, there's not much evidence of the ballet being pre-chorographed, most prefering to wing-it.
Jason.
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