Fractured Axel

damp_weather wrote:

But more seriously, when something isn't working, it is often worth at least considering doing the opposite.

....Slightly less seriously, I was pondering on the idea of a mild comedy act on the subject of how not to fly. It is nice having Allan Pothecary of Close Encounters in the arena showing the basics of how to set up and fly a stunt kite. But would a comedy sketch showing how not to do it be attractive - If the spectators can't understand normal trick flying, it certainly might confuse the audience! - or maybe it would educate them...

...For example I was thinking of the flyer coming on, starting to assemble his kite, putting the spreader through the sail (we could use a pre-holed kite for this), walking off (perhaps to a trade stand), coming back with another kite, trying to fly it with unequal length lines, with arms in the classic drunken "I surrender!" position, have someone come on and change to equal length lines, and then go down the field and hold his kite ready for launch, only to be hit in the face (we could fake this bit with slight of hand) when the kite is launched prematurely....
...Don't know what festival insurers would make of this.

Is this just a stream of ridiculous consciousness or do you actually give this stuff serious thought, before posting?

Craig wrote:

Is this just a stream of ridiculous consciousness or do you actually give this stuff serious thought, before posting?

OK. Sounds like you hate the idea.

What's your suggestion? - Or do you think that there is no issue to address? - Let's be happy with the sport with its present numbers of participants...
That's fine by me as well.

So do you honestly think some guy twating around Tommy Cooper style is going to encourage anyone to participate in kite flying competitions?

This subject has been talked to death both here and GWTW, the fact is kiting is a minority pastime and our interest is a micro-culture within that minority pastime and always will be, and I'm quite happy with that situation as I don't want more people taking up my valuable flying space.

The Jaffa Cake Cup isn't trying to get new people into flying but to get existing flyers to compete in the easiest way possible.

GO JAFFA CAKE CUPS!

Weekend's looking good for Brighton (come on fate, I'm tempting you!), I take it we'll get a comp or two in? (No, I haven't read this thread, is it all about how massive the freestyle tourney will be at Brighton?)

See you all there amigos.

Craig wrote:

So do you honestly think some guy twating around Tommy Cooper style is going to encourage anyone to participate in kite flying competitions?

No. It was intended for several steps before that, when people are being put off flying at all by their early experiences. e.g. All those people you see at the edges of festivals and on holiday who buy a kite, don't quite get it to fly well or do anything and get put off by the whole experience.
(With us it was different - couldn't get it to do anything, but this was a red rag to a bull, as we got engrossed in figuring out how to make the fugging things fly and then trick.)

This subject has been talked to death both here and GWTW, the fact is kiting is a minority pastime and our interest is a micro-culture within that minority pastime and always will be, and I'm quite happy with that situation as I don't want more people taking up my valuable flying space.

OK

The Jaffa Cake Cup isn't trying to get new people into flying

- that's what my partner and I have observed in practice so far

... but to get existing flyers to compete in the easiest way possible.

Agreed

Amen to that Infinative! Long live the Jaffa Cake Cup (in whatever form it takes) aka a dozen flokes on a muddy field in early January, frozen, soaked but keen to compete, have a great day out and learn stuff into the bargain.

Its hard to make judging all things to all people and it is the most difficult of tasks (had a go myself ealier this year) but it really its the taking part that counts.

The skill level is so widely spread at the moment that you almost need a dB scale to make sense of it. You can pretty much predict the top competitors from any given field and to be honest its a close run thing for most the time, further down the rankings (and much further down the skill level!) its anyones guess!

damp_weather wrote:

No. It was intended for several steps before that, when people are being put off flying at all by their early experiences. e.g. All those people you see at the edges of festivals and on holiday who buy a kite, don't quite get it to fly well or do anything and get put off by the whole experience.

I was that guy once... And someone at one such festival came up to me and gave me a hand to get me started... sorted out my line lengths etc.

And that's what it takes to get people into the sport: Great ambassadors who are prepared to give noobs a bit of time. Now, If I see someone struggling I go over and give them a hand. Not only do they learn to fly, they get to see what a great bunch we are. It's got to be worth the effort.

SteveB wrote:

I was that guy once... And someone at one such festival came up to me and gave me a hand to get me started... sorted out my line lengths etc.

And that's what it takes to get people into the sport: Great ambassadors who are prepared to give noobs a bit of time. Now, If I see someone struggling I go over and give them a hand. Not only do they learn to fly, they get to see what a great bunch we are. It's got to be worth the effort.

Yes - while it isn't how we personally got started, 10 months later it was how we got to meet some of the Purley Wayers in the flesh. - Pierro came over, invited us to join in and gave us a hand. Really appreciated.

damp_weather wrote:

....Slightly less seriously, I was pondering on the idea of a mild comedy act on the subject of how not to fly. It is nice having Allan Pothecary of Close Encounters in the arena showing the basics of how to set up and fly a stunt kite. But would a comedy sketch showing how not to do it be attractive - If the spectators can't understand normal trick flying, it certainly might confuse the audience! - or maybe it would educate them...

It's not just Allan who does this, Carl Robertshaw does it, the Airheads do it & Keith Griffiths does it, basically it's available to most festival organisers. A comedy sketch would only really be funny to existing fliers and would take some exceptional skills. I don't know of any (deliberate) comedian flyers at the moment.

Just to be clear, I do not and never will deliberately crash a kite to show how robust it is!

Back on topic...


Following on from the Jaffa Cup on Sunday, my view re. the scoring is this...

... 'tis just a touch too open to weighted votes. That's not to suggest that any of us would be less than honest, personally I have 100% faith in the integrity of all involved, but there is potential. So I would suggest Eurovision style points awards. 5 Jaffa's (in one token if tokens are available) for your favourite, 4 for 2nd place, 3 for 3rd etc.

I know that that means with more than 5 competitors there's potential for some fliers not to get any, but see this as an opportunity to get better, not as a failing and all will be well. S'only a bit of fun after all.

Great format btw. Doddle to set up, easy, no pressure participation and peer judged so everyone gets to play. Nice.

Bryan

First of all, sincere appologies for the lack of Jaffa cakes on Sunday. I did have some in the car but had to park half a mile down the track. Thanks to everyone who took part and to Bryan for all the admin side of things and Al for timekeeping and keeping it all flowing. I'd be interested to hear any comments or observations from anyone who took part or witnessed it.

My thoughts...

It was a very big turn out and we did struggle for all the reasons Bryan mentioned here, just generally keeping track of that much flying in our heads. Then it comes to voting and blah blah blah. I think the format works well for smaller groups up to about 8. And having 16 tokens (2x the No of competitors) works for that size of group. Beyond that and it all starts to get too much.

Ways round it ?... Maybe we should have split the group into two? Either, have a voluntary "do you want to be in the fun class or the experienced class" (This also I think would get more people entering.) Or split the group in two and then the 3 winners of each group fly against each other but this does bring us full circle to the same problem as with trickout.

Would anyone who took part on Sunday have been happier in their own group of 4-5 fliers? I hope that doesn't sound condescending. If comps had been open class when I started back in the winter league days and I'd have been up against Carl and James I'd have papped meself. I still do today but I just don't take it as seriously as I did back then.

Do we need a feeder system? Sort of a

I agree that that the Jaffas = 2*Competitors is fine for small groups (like previous Sunday @ Pearly Whey) but it is desperately difficult to remember who did what when there are 13 other competitors, especially if you have a pictorial memory and 3 competitors are sharing a kite! For this reason, I think dividing groups when Competitors >8 is probably a good idea. To divide it on a self-perceived ability basis is probably best (with a proviso that anyone winning a novice/fun class 3 times in a season is automagically promoted).

[Aside] One thing I noticed about the JCC on the last couple of Sundays: the age range of the competitors spanned over half a century. What other healthy outdoor sport can embrace such an age range on an equal footing?

@ Bryan, sorry just spotted your post, must have slotted in while I was typing. The only problems I have with a Eurovision or Grand Prix style points allocation is that depending on the weighting of the points you can get a different winner depending on the points, and also it doesn't allow for the odd "good effort" vote.

How do you feel about splitting the group?

Fantastic turn-out for the JCC at Brighton, 15 is just too many competitors (never thought i'd say that) for it to work well IMO.

Good fun anyway..........