Fractured Axel

I am sure that everybody would agree that the sound quality at UK competitions is first rate. However, this comes at a significant price to STACK UK, and this is the primary reason for the high cost of entry to the UK Nationals.

I was just wondering how important UK competitors think that the sound quality is? Would you be willing to tolerate a less competent sound system, if it cost half as much per year to compete?

Any comments?

Don't do it!

Compromise on sound I mean...

It needs to be of sufficient quality that the full tonal range from bass to treble can be heard and have enough punch that any quiet passages can be heard at any point in the arena in a 30mph wind.

Would a cheaper one than we use now do that?

aphelps wrote:

...the sound quality at UK competitions is first rate [but] comes at a significant price

I certainly appreciate the high sound quality, but then I'm not one of those having to pay for it.

Andy, can you give us an idea what the cost is?

A

I also appreciate the sound quality and I am one of those paying for it.

Don't change it without trying the cheaper alternatives out in the worst conditions you can find, as Roy implies you can't risk compromising performances simply because the competitors can't hear their music.

Keith

We are using more or less state of the art kit there, and it is expencive.
While I have a 1KW P.A. system, I would not consider this capable in any way for the needs of the comp. field.
There may be some corners that could be cut in the system, but not by much - I would prefer a capable system rather than one that could so easily be underated to the task, and disappoint.
the man to ask is obviously Alex and his mate, they are profesionals and I for one would not question their capabilities over the requirement. Having dealt with open air events requiring good quality sound systems (mixed bands and singers) I would expect in excess on 20KW system, probably closer 100KW!
Been there, got the ear defenders - was useful in blocking out the complaints!!
ask anyone who was at Swindon about poor P.A.!! It wasn't my choice...

Yes, the cost is the key issue here. Whilst I am do not want to publicise how much STACK does pay for the sound system, it is IMHO a lot. It is the primary reason why STACK comps cost a significant amount of money to enter.

After a brief scan of the web this week, STACK could purchase an AMP and four speakers, take all of the cost in one year and still be able to drop the entry fee by 25%.

The flip side of that argument was put to me in France. What other sport makes it so **cheap** to enter competitions. Perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree here. I'll ponder this at Rougham.

aphelps wrote:

After a brief scan of the web this week, STACK could purchase an AMP and four speakers, take all of the cost in one year and still be able to drop the entry fee by 25%.

A basic setup should cost you around a grand, but as Peter says, this is going to be a far cry from what Alec is using.

If memory serves, Alec is using Bose 802's. These are, quite simply, the best speakers money can buy for this kind of PA. They're small, lightweight, excellent sound quality, and best of all, weatherproof. But they're not cheap at around £1200 a pair (and you'll need at least two pairs). However, you can pick up the older series IIs for around £300 a pair, and because they're so robust they're generally a good second hand buy.

Add to that a couple of amplifiers (approx £300 each), amp cabinet, a small mixing desk, CD player, microphone (and ideally a radio mic), and you've spent another grand. Then add another five hundred quid for a generator to power it all, and another few hundred quid for cables, stands, and a box of gaffer tape (an essential piece of equipment, rather like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together ).

Oh, and don't forget the cost of transporting it, insuring it, and the time required to setup and take it down.

So my back-of-an-envelope calculation suggests that you would be looking at 2-3k for something approaching the quality of what Alec has. And even then, you're only pushing 1Kw with 4 Bose 802 (250w each if memory serves). Peter says 1kw isn't enough, and he's probably right in the long term. But I think it would be a good start, particulary with 802s which push a lot of air for little power.

So based on that, if you're paying Alec less than (finger in air) a grand each year to do the PA for x competitions, then you're probably getting a good deal. If you're paying much more than that, then it's worth looking seriously at purchasing a rig.

Perhaps the best option is to buy a basic setup that can be used at small events, saving Alec for those bigger festivals?

Anyway, if you want any advice, just shout. I spent a few years working as a live sound engineer (working mostly with BOSE rigs, as it happens) and did a few outdoor gigs in my time. I suspect Peter's experience is more recent/extensive than mine, so he may be more up-to-date than me. But I'm here if you need me.

A