Fractured Axel

stackuk · Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:42 am

This is to confirm that due to the large number of entries at Rougham and Middle Wallop, the following competitions have been cancelled to ensure that we will finish the events within the time available;

Rougham:
Dual Line Individual Novice
Dual Line Individual Experienced

Middle Wallop
Dual Line Individual Master

Please note that this decision is taken with a great deal of regret, and after a great deal of number crunching trying to find a schedule that would allow all competition the planned disciplines to take place.

With regard to planned Tricks Party events at these festivals. The Rougham competition is still scheduled to take place after the main competitions are finished on the Sunday (about 3pm but might be earlier). The Tricks Party event scheduled for the Monday at Middle Wallop will still go ahead as planned.

If you have any queries, please let us know.
Regards

mobius · Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:47 am

What if we have poor wind conditions at all rounds, but have perfect conditions at Wallop..? You could have a good experienced flyer getting a massive points advantage or indeed vice versa if good conditions at Rougham. This could play havoc in the 'open' competition.

SpOoC · Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:26 pm

I guess Oh Fnu£$ isn't really a query...

SpOoC · Thu Apr 28, 2005 12:32 pm

On a slightly more constructive note, this is perhaps the result of the success that STACK UK have had over the past year in encouraging new competitors.

Sadly, this new found enthusiasm is going to be curbed/checked if this kind of thing happens at the last minute when plans have been made, practice done etc etc etc. Not to mention the valid point from the more 'serious' competitors.

Does this mean that STACK UK can only cope with a 'finite' number of competitors? I think there are several things that need more detailed discussion, but perhaps not on this forum.

***Not to mention the added pressure on novices who will now be thinking, hey, the Masters aren't going to want us new people here as it's because of us that there isn't enough time to get everything done now. It's bad enough being in indi with these guys anyway, let alone thinking they don't want us there...

Jason · Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:00 pm

Looks like the pressure's off then Faith. Good job you've only spent about 300 hours picking music, working out a routine and practicing it, and only about £650 on kites for every condition.

You'd have been gutted if you'd actually made any investment eh?

I do hope (and this is in no way a swipe at Andy P whose efforts I cannot fault, and he knows that) that on the day they actually get on with it. Too many times in the past I've seen stack schedules slashed due to lack of time, only to then see 45 minute breaks between competitors and hour and a half lunch breaks FFS.

SpOoC · Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:23 pm

Thanks Jason, but hey, it's only kites :lol:

...I think I should amend my sig now... :shock:

mobius · Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:15 pm

Jason wrote:
Too many times in the past I've seen stack schedules slashed due to lack of time, only to then see 45 minute breaks between competitors and hour and a half lunch breaks FFS.

Actually Jason I don't think that these are fair comments.

A great deal of preparation work is done by Graham Webb prior to each event to work out how long each part will take to run based upon the predicted competitors turning up. He doesn't know for sure if they will or indeed if extras turn up, but a running order is made all ready to go on the day.

For the last two years his predictions have been spot on.

The thing about competition kite flying is that there are always things outside of your control that will cause things to overrun - for example you need a wind that is within the competition range and when you dont get this then your schedule is always thrown out.

Again the lunch break comment I think is harsh. The judges have to stand up all day, sometimes in the rain, sometimes in the height of the summer sun.. a half an hour's break is more than acceptable. In anycase, from memory last year they were always pushing through the events with minimal breaks if the schedule warranted it.

Spooc wrote:
***Not to mention the added pressure on novices who will now be thinking, hey, the Masters aren't going to want us new people here as it's because of us that there isn't enough time to get everything done now. It's bad enough being in indi with these guys anyway, let alone thinking they don't want us there...

For me at least, this certainly isn't the case. We always need a new input of flyers. Master flyers probably use up more of their prep time anyhow then the novices. But yes... it would seem that there is a magic number of competitors that can be 'processed' per day per areana.

As a positive suggestion, Andy, could we see what the current schedule is so we have an idea of who is attending? If it would help time the Scratch Bunnies could pull out of the team event for Rougham.

smr · Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:30 pm

I was only going to be able to fly in 3 of the Dual Line Individual competitions as it was. Now Rougham is cancelled its only going to 2.

mobius · Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:35 pm

Another idea that comes to mind...

If all competitors agree, we could reduce the maximum setup time by one minute per competitor. This could not be strictly enforced as a competitor has every right to say that the competition is not being run to the agreed rulebook.

However, if everyone agrees that it may allow competitons to be fitted in to the schedule that would not be there otherwise, then surely everyone would see this as a good thing. Anyone then breaking this agreement could be seen to be then 'unsportsmanlike'.

Jason · Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:34 pm

Whilst I don't doubt for one moment the sterling efforts of many, many people behind the scenes and on the day (as previously stated), my comments are based on real past observations and experiences. Ultimately, it has absolutely nothing to do with me, however, I do find it frustrating to sit back and watch such complete inefficiency in progress and sometimes cannot help but comment on it. And for that I appologise.

mobius · Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:06 pm

Jason wrote:
my comments are based on real past observations and experiences.

I have to admit that the trick/freestyle competitions in the past have normally been fitted in as and when possible rather than being given a priority slot on the schedule.. trick competitions have also in the past been used to fill gaps when there's no wind to run the other competitions. Perhaps this is to what you refer?

Anyhow.. we can't change the past.. but we can try to make things better for the future.

Surely it is preferable for the organisers to announce up front of the event that there are going to be time issues, and admit to having to cancel a discipline, rather than going ahead anyway and then announcing mid-day that they're going to cancel an event in the afternoon.

bryan beasley · Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:35 pm

Hmmm, interstesing.

Just out of interest, is there more competitors this year, more disciplines, less judges or a bit of each?

Bryan

Jason · Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:38 pm

mobius wrote:
Jason wrote:
my comments are based on real past observations and experiences.

I have to admit that the trick/freestyle competitions in the past have normally been fitted in as and when possible rather than being given a priority slot on the schedule.. trick competitions have also in the past been used to fill gaps when there's no wind to run the other competitions. Perhaps this is to what you refer?

No, it was based on previous league, precision and ballet comps. Variously as a competitor, a judge and an observer.

mobius wrote:
Anyhow.. we can't change the past.. but we can try to make things better for the future.
Surely it is preferable for the organisers to announce up front of the event that there are going to be time issues, and admit to having to cancel a discipline, rather than going ahead anyway and then announcing mid-day that they're going to cancel an event in the afternoon.

I agree completely but I can't help thinking that someone doing a time and motion study on it would have a field day.

Peter · Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:48 pm

Trust me Jason, things are tight! for the past two years we have run to Graham's shedules and it has worked out as he predicted. it may have been the case prior to this, but with STACK slowly growing of late this type of time scheduling was neccessary for the organisation to work.
I would also say that most of the top flyers within STACK are only too aware of the beginners, and would help to see them compete. there's the evedence above with Mobius's offer! and their surgestions.
I know we have been trying to avoid it, but could it be that we are approaching the need for three days at Wallop? or if there's the judges, two arena's? non of us thought we would be reaching this level but as needs must.......
I know this is going to open up the debate of evenness of judging again, but it's one route to think of.
P.

stackuk · Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:02 pm

Tee hee. And there I was thinking that it was the end of the matter. Phew, problem solved.....
Okay, I'll go and dig out the timings, and post them for you. Watch this space.

Fractured Axel

Rougham + Middle Wallop

Rougham + Middle Wallop