Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum

Moderators: Craig, Davey, SpOoC

  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
 
User avatar
sftonkin
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:43 am
Location: Fordingbridge
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:08 am

The only advantage I can see to bent handles is that they will always fit the same way in the hand; straight ones would be rotatable. Given high-density foam on the handles, they will likely develop a bit of memory, so that they will be held exactly the same each time you fly. Or am I spouting utter crap?
 
User avatar
Ian Newham
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 1236
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:57 pm
Location: Notts/Derby UK
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Andy S wrote:
I'd like someone to explain the supposed advantages of the bent handles.


I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before the 'Family' pops over to set us straight on that too :lol:
 
User avatar
Fungus
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:27 pm
Location: coventry uk

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:21 pm

Will there be a lot of people going into hiding when IQUAD come to GB this fall :lol:

fungus :-)
w H ind c H ecks H ar 4 w H imps
 
Stephen Hoath
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:47 am
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:56 pm

sftonkin wrote:
The only advantage I can see to bent handles is that they will always fit the same way in the hand; straight ones would be rotatable. Given high-density foam on the handles, they will likely develop a bit of memory, so that they will be held exactly the same each time you fly. Or am I spouting utter crap?


It's a good question, the Airbow has symetrical handles but I have seen quite a few people flying it with the more traditional Rev style handle.

I have tried various handles some that are straight and some that are bent very near the top. None of them felt right to me but that may be because I have spent 10 years using the other type and 10 minutes using the straight handles.

However, I believe the bent handles makes the neutral holding position more comfortable than straight handles.

Mind you, has anyone tried a kite surf bar yet?
 
User avatar
hezz
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Watford

Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:56 pm

I would have thought the handles are bent at that angle because all 4 flying lines are the same length, but by extending the 'apparent' bottom line length longer, you get more precision reverse control. That's why there are longer versions of the handles (11 inch, 13, 15 inch) and people have created their own versions with many adjusting knots to fine-tune this idea.

If they weren't angled in then you would end up with top and bottom lines coming out of the handle end up to 15 inches apart vertically, rather than ~8 inches with angled handles. (It's hard to explain without being able to draw a diagram!)

Plus I guess it would be more uncomfortable to hold and use a 15" long straight handle, if you think about the hand position that you need to adopt, bent handles make perfect sense!

(for people who like Revs of course)

Hezz
 
User avatar
Slow Dog
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Rugby

Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:00 pm

Jason wrote:
I'm not totally sold on the mechanical advantage of a bent handle.


Following an excursion into Excel; for even handle length above and below the bend:

If the handles are straight, you get to the point of greatest difference between top and bottom line by rotating the handles through 90 Degrees.

If the handles are bent at 45 degrees, you get to the point of greatest difference between top and bottom line by rotating the handles through 65 degrees.

The latter's going to better match the freedom of movement of your wrist. :shrug: You certainly don't stab the bottom of the handles into your thighs quite as often, and that's good enough reason for me.
 
Andy S
King of FA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:53 am
Location: In my house
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:20 pm

I still maintain there's no difference between angled sticks and straight sticks with adjustable leader lines.
 
User avatar
Jason
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 3262
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: QLD

Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:21 pm

Take your bent handles and take the foam off. Then weld a bit of straight tube between bottom and top so you've then got a triangle. Are these handles bent or straight?

Hezz's point makes sense about it "giving" less brake for equal lines.
Jason.
Image
 
Andy S
King of FA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:53 am
Location: In my house
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:28 pm

Agreed, but you can extend the bottom lines with a leader line.
 
User avatar
Slow Dog
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:01 pm
Location: Rugby

Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:49 pm

Jason wrote:
Take your bent handles and take the foam off. Then weld a bit of straight tube between bottom and top so you've then got a triangle.


I bow to your logic. Bending the handles just changes the angle of that third straight tube relative to vertical hand position, for comfort and thigh protection.
 
Andy S
King of FA
Posts: 9273
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:53 am
Location: In my house
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:51 pm

I dig the thigh protection argument.
 
User avatar
misterbleepy
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 2863
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: near Newquay, Cornwall
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:12 pm

I think that you'd need to mount the lines on swivels on straight handles, to allow for inadvertant handle twiddling while flying.

Bent handles are automagically pulled to the straight ahead position by line tension.

(of course, this is just conjecture)
Keith B
--
Kite Tricks mind map

bleep bleep bleep
 
User avatar
thief
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: Massachusets Stateside
Contact:

Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:11 pm

jburka wrote:
The other major tweak has been the use of quad/magic sticks (aka training wheels). Rev would be willing to sell those if they could manage to not lose money doing so. As it is, they're available as an after-market addition that's easy to add to your kite, and Revolution certainly doesn't care what you do to their sail after you've bought it from them.

Quad sticks are not available anymore...I worked at the shop that produced them until we closed Dec 31st 2005....We sent a couple of sets to Lolly...and they just overlooked them....obviously if they felt that they were needed they would have snapped them up from us.....we had sets of any size/style rev....shipped them everywhere....and the Diehard guys swore that they were useless...now there is interest again in them...go figure....
kites kayaks & corgis
 
User avatar
711jrp
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:32 pm
Location: Next door to a crackhouse

Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:18 pm

I promise I'm not going to be rude, and I don't pretend for one minute that I know anything much about flying revs but the geometry of the bent handles is very similar to a rising rate suspension geometry that I was using many years ago.

If a said rotating lever (handle) is attached to a link (line) each degree of rotation of the lever will result in a linear movement in the link. The biggest amount of linear movement for the smallest degree of rotation happens when the lever and link are orientated at a 90 degree angle to each other,If the angle between the link and lever is greater or smaller that 90 degrees the amount of linear movement is diminished and this scenario continues until the link and lever are at 180 degrees to one another IE. lined up, at this point a degree of rotation will result in no linear movement at all.

Now if I apply this to the rev handle. If I split the handle in two at the bend the top half attaches to the line making a angle approaching 90 degrees and as the handle is rotated it gets closer to 90 degrees this is called rising rate and will give the biggest amount of linear pull to the line.
On the other hand the lower part of the handle attaches to the line making a angle much greater than 90 degrees and as the handle is rotated it gets further away from 90 this is called falling rate and gives a much smaller linear pull on the lines.
This arrangement can't be replicated using a straight handle as it would require the fulcrum to be at the bottom if you wanted to pull the top line more for each degree of rotation and this would be uncomfortable as there kite pulls more on the top lines, add to this the fact you would lose the difference in the rising and falling rates which might add sensitivity when flying in reverse .
Pete
Fivers are alive
50% of the dognappers
 
User avatar
hezz
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Watford

Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:47 pm

That might explain why it seems 'easier' to hold the handles sideways / pointing outwards when doing certain moves (e.g. holding upside down) that require a high level of precision... :cool:

Hezz
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9