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NEX
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Location: England

Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:45 pm

It seems D'Antonio, Barresi and their dwindling band of mindless pawns will allow neither fact nor truth to interfere with the condemnation of good products exported to the UK from what many of us see, until proved otherwise, as a legitimate competitor.
The defamation of Chinese manufacture is grossly hypocritical with the Americans in general and their kite industry in particular relying so heavily on the Chinese.

D'Antonio's behaviour is questionable, his spitting at certain Chinese as he recently claimed is both ignorant and quite pathetic, surely neither a productive or civilised response from a business person seeking effective complaint resolution.
Continually informing his potential or previous customers they are either "part of the problem or part of the solution" is stupid and divisive as is the encouraging of people to approach us supposedly ignorant flyers in order to "educate" us which in this part of the world is liable to have a very direct response ending with the Anglo Saxon version of an invitation to sexually leave.

As an aside, with US patents it becomes tricky for those wishing to illegally extend protection, it appears there are plenty of patent experts in the US searching for cases of perceived misuse in order to also gain a fast buck.
Gayla were last year reported having had to settle in a claim over kite related expired patent misuse.
In the US patents are numbered chronologically, unless extended, patents up to and starting with the number 4 have now expired.

thanks Dad, he helped a bit, ok, a lot. :oops:
 
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Lex B
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:51 pm

jason247 wrote:
Lex I think you might be right....

I always built my own kites, for personal use.
Reading the other tread, I actualy began to understand, that copying for comercial purpose is a big NO_NO !!
If I want a cheap kite, I'll be bulding it myself, NEVER buying a copy.
I'm not a convinced Rev flyer, but bought a B-series [luckily they come in a more contemporary design 8) ]
Ifffffff . . . . I want my own design, will make a new sail [saying the old was . . . . "to old"..]; would not sell the new sail though.

Soooo, my right, is a litlle more nuanced, then just "right".
remember: amateurs built the ark ..
professionals built the Titanic.

PLEASE......NO TAILS ....
 
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Old Greebo
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:39 pm

I think my morality over this issue is a bit complicated.
I would prefer to respect the designs of dedicated kite makers, rather than just to obey injunctions obtained by avid and self-protective marketers of an interesting and attractive new idea. And no kitemaker in the latter category gets the benefit of my respect for kite makers in the first category.
I tell myself I would prefer to Buy British, and yet my current (and last five) cars have come from Japan. None of my four current kites is British made. I'm wearing bling from Italy, Indonesia and - yes, China. My shirt (Tesco) was doubtless made in a Far East sweatshop. My TV, the freesat box, the tv - well, you can guess.

I won't reject a kite just because it's made in China. I've got a suspicion that at least 3 of my current 4 kites might have been made in China (somebody please tell me who actually makes HQ kites and the Silver Fox?). I have 29 t-shirts and sweatshirts, and most of them, even the souvenir ones from Florence and Lanzaroti, bear the 'made in China' tag.

So when I'm in the market to buy something, the country of origin isn't the first consideration. Gone (sadly) are the days when "British Made" meant excellent, reliable above all other. And dare I say it, "American made" has never, ever borne that cachet here in the UK. (Sorry, Rev-lovers).
What I look for is good spec, good reviews, good feedback. And good looks.

Which is why I was looking at that ebay kite in the first place.
Brian. (Past it, but reaching back!)
Silver Fox 2.5; HQ Shadow SUL; Rev 1.5 SLE; Spiderkites URO; Etc...
 
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Fungus
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:47 am

after all its down to personal choice

you can choose to drive a toyota landcriuser rather than a RANGE ROVER
or choose to drive a skoda rather than VW
choose to fly a copy or a REV

they are close but not quite THE REAL DEAL

fungus :lol:

Brian, i agree its very difficult to buy british, i was made redundant 4 times from british car industry, nearly everything i own comes from anywhere other than GB :(
w H ind c H ecks H ar 4 w H imps
 
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kitejan
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:34 pm

Wow! Not seen a thread like this for ages.

I must admit to being somewhat torn over this issue - on one hand I do appreciate that Revolution Kites have done the original R&D and what-have-you on the Revolution kite and obviously deserve to benefit form that. However that was 20-odd years ago and now surely it's up to the free market?

I'm not talking about counterfeit goods here - someone else making a knock off Rev and passing it off as a Rev isn't right. But building a kite with the same basic shape as a Rev and calling it something different - really what is the problem these days? Does it matter if I do it for myself (yep, done that), or make one for a friend (yep, done that), or made in a factory somewhere (no, not done that)?

Much as I like flying Revs (sorry - 'W' shaped quad line kites - or "WSQLK" for short) I seriously cant get excited about the whole Rev family thing going on. Partly it's because the majority of Rev's (or WSQLK's ) I own are home made - and therefore am part of the "copied Rev" thing and so I'm not welcome in that family :-)

The comments about better performance from a real Rev are interesting - this is of course something Revolution can offer on "real" Revs. Personally I've never noticed much difference, possibly due to my flying skills (or I build brilliant kites that are better than the original.... hmm not really), but I'm happy with what I've got and at the moment don't see any need to rush out and buy the genuine thing.

We don't get all picky over Delta kite design or whatever - they compete on their build/performance/price/brand. Not simply on who builds it. This is why I dont get the whole thing over Revolution kites. Why is this any different? Especially now their patent has expired - surely any one anywhere can do what they want on that basic design? (That is an honest question: surely they can now? That was the point of the original patent - to allow the inventors time to make money out of their invention.).

Anyway - the kites linked to at the start of this epic are indeed very good looking. But I will pass for now, going to be remaking some very worn Rev (or WSQLK) sails soon.....

Jan
 
Andy S
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Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:14 pm

The whole 'family' thing and this vicious and fallacious reliance on expired patents is exactly what puts me off.
 
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Flying Fish
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:04 pm

The whole 'family' thing and this vicious and fallacious reliance on expired patents is exactly what puts me off


+1

I'll never buy a counterfeit kite, but the (to me) boring sail design and high price of a Revolution, coupled with the aggressive "thou shalt not" preaching coming from the Revolution camp, makes it less and less likely I'll ever buy a Revolution, and more and more likely I'll buy another perfectly legal WSQLK, which flies just as well as a Revolution.
Last edited by Flying Fish on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Old Greebo
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:29 pm

+2
And with you on every point, Dromel, except I have already got a Rev.
We lives and we learns ...
Brian. (Past it, but reaching back!)
Silver Fox 2.5; HQ Shadow SUL; Rev 1.5 SLE; Spiderkites URO; Etc...
 
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Flying Fish
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:33 pm

except I have already got a Rev


You could try and sell it on eBay as an Albatross clone!
 
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Old Greebo
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:38 pm

Cor! Never thought of that!
Brian. (Past it, but reaching back!)
Silver Fox 2.5; HQ Shadow SUL; Rev 1.5 SLE; Spiderkites URO; Etc...
 
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oldflyer
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:40 pm

Is someone from Revolution Kites able to categorically confirm the patent position?

If the patent has genuinely expired and somebody makes a ‘W’ shaped quad kite commercially with different graphics without claiming it’s a ‘Revolution’ surely that must be ok/legal?

I’m a bit confused by what is a genuine ‘Revolution’ product these days anyway. Is it only a genuine Rev if it is made in the Rev factory in the USA? Is it a genuine Rev if it is one of the ‘Masterpiece’ Series made by Martin Lester, Scott Hampton or another kite artist and ‘finished’ in the US Rev factory?

What about a Rev made by this chap? He sells them commercially from Spain and I don’t think they go anywhere near the Rev factory in the US. They look superb though. The graphic is great and the videos on his site are well worth watching!

I’m very confused!
 
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hezz
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:06 pm

You didn't read very far on Polo's site then?

Los Hermanos González & Revolution® Kites
Thanks to the quality of their work, "Los Hermanos González" obtained a Revolution® Kites license which allow them to make and to sell Rev 1.5. It is with their collaboration that today I can propose this printed version of my design


Hezz
 
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Fungus
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:42 am

and as well as personal choice,doesn't pride of ownership come into it

if i could afford to drive a jag or range rover i would, and be very proud that its british engineering at its best etc =D>
i drive a second hand ford :(

fungus :)
w H ind c H ecks H ar 4 w H imps
 
NEX
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:34 pm

"and as well as personal choice,doesn't pride of ownership come into it"
"british engineering at its best"

You do like having a laff Fungus. =D>



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/art ... aults.html

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews ... ility.html

http://www.thelurch.com/buyers_summary.htm

If you want anythin of use ya gotta buy from the east not west,

Where do ya drink The Dog n' Bitch :P
 
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Old Greebo
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:06 pm

<< ... and be very proud that its british engineering at its best etc >>

But Fungus, it's not British! It's just American!
Brian. (Past it, but reaching back!)
Silver Fox 2.5; HQ Shadow SUL; Rev 1.5 SLE; Spiderkites URO; Etc...
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