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First steps

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 pm
by Old Greebo
Had my first-ever quad-line experience today. A 60-minute outing with my brand new 1.5 SLE.
It went surprisingly well. Quite a few crashes, but I was expecting that and they were gentle-ish, non-fatal ones.
It's easier to launch (re-launch) a Rev than a delta.
There were a few problems though.
The LE end caps kept coming off.
On 3 or 4 occasions the lines suddenly (and for no reason that I could see) went VERY slack and the kite fluttered down, LE first and very gently, to the ground. Usually from quite high up, and slightly off the middle of the window.
It's very hard to set aside the automatic, dual-line reactions. Must see about buying a pair of handcuffs ...
Oh, and when I got back home and re-ran the instructional DVD, I discovered I'd fitted the vertical shafts on the wrong side of the sail (ie, on the bridle side). It still worked though. Sort of.
Shall try again tomorrow!

(PS - Is it necessary to stretch/equalise a set of newly-bought Laser Pro Gold lines?)

First steps

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:05 am
by noggin
I know it sounds daft, but when I was learning to fly a Rev at first, to stop you push/pulling (which you still do when you get good!!) I stuck my elbows into my sides and just flew with my wrists!! Worked for me!! :-(

Re: First steps

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:33 am
by Vee
I can still only fly a rev for 15-20 minutes at a time, because after that I loose concentration and start flying it like a delta.

Re: First steps

Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:14 pm
by Old Greebo
Thanks for your comments, Vee and Noggin. All help and advice is gratefully received!

Well, today I set up the 1.5 SLE properly, and the experience was much better.
I can now launch, do turns & twists, and even back the kite gently down to a controlled landing.
If I land (er, all right, I mean crash) leading edge down, I can use the lines to invert it and take off again.
I even managed (a couple of times) to do that thing where you send the kite screaming towards the ground, stop it dead a couple of feet before the ghastly crash, and edge upwards again, backwards, before turning for a simple ascent.

But my LE end caps still come out. Why? Should I tighten their little shock-cord lanyards?
And no matter how tightly and tidily I wind the lines onto the winder at the end of a session, they refuse to feed off neatly when I'm running them out at the beginning of the next session. Which leads to tangles. Real ones, not the sort that miraculously disappear like the man in the instructional DVD says!

I was hoping that I'd still prefer flying my 2-line deltas after flying the Rev. But it might not be working out that way ...

Re: First steps

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:02 am
by Fungus
re line management, i've tried all sorts of methods, but the 1 described by John B in the instructional vid is the one i use, but i still get the occasional snarl up :evil:
2 weeks ago i was with experienced REV fliers and they also have occasional problems, seems to go with managing 4 lines :twisted:

unless i crash very heavily my end caps stay put, so i would put an extra knot in the bungy and try that, until you can get an experienced REV flier to have a look.

fungus :-)

Re: First steps

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:24 pm
by Old Greebo
I've seen line winders advertised that look more like fishing reels than the usual flat ones. The advertisers usually imply that they're only useful for single line kites.
But it seems to me that they could be the dog's wossnames for dual or quad lines.
What totally killing snag am I failing (with my newbie eyes) to see?

Re: First steps

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:11 am
by Vee
Using a reel: if you wind on with a looping action and wind off with a pull out action you get a twist in your lines for every loop you made (arrgh!). Most people use a mix of looping and pulling to wind on leaving an unpredictable number of twists, which get bound on EVERYTHING, including imaginary invisible things.
Oh, yes, If you try to get clever and start unwinding with a loop off action, you are bound, at least once, to get the wrong side of the reel and end up with double the number of twists.

(Can you tell I've spent huge amounts of time unravelling these lines for kiddies?)

Re: First steps

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:54 am
by seales
I think I know the reels you're talking about - with the winding handle and static handle (possibly even geared to wind faster). The single liner's at the downs use them for silly length lines. The 'free end tangles' will still be a problem if you find a way to easily attach/detach all 4 lines to the reel itself:

Might not be the 4-line solution you're looking for, but I use the lineset I bought for my limited rev use on deltas too so I keep them wound as two pairs. When setting up, one pair as power lines and the other as brake lines will allow them to unwind without offset issues, then just stick the handles on the ends, remembering the brake line ends are closer to the kite (trailing edge downwind) and of course the right lines are on the left side (kite set for launching backwards).

It's two trips to wind the lines up, but no tangles and 2 more linesets to be used for dual line.

Winding up 4 lines at once is likely to give at least a couple of twists due to the free ends, between left, right and/or power and brake in any combination. These are the tangles that'll still cause problems with the 'fishing reel' approach (not so noticeable with dual lines, as it's just a single twist or two). Also, unless you prop the kite up when just pulling off a standard winder with 4 lines, the brake line offset will cause them to be out of sync with the power lines and it'll snag if they're wound under them.

First steps

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:46 pm
by daz larsen
Have a look on you tube

Revolution tutorial-line management

Hope this helps

Re: First steps

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:17 pm
by Old Greebo
Thanks Daz - I had actually seen that tutorial and watched it carefully.
I think my main problem is eyesight. If I just lay out the lines and trust that any twists will miraculously disappear when I pick up the handles. it doesn't work for me. OK, I'm still new to this and I'm only talking about less than a dozen experiences. But when I pick up the handles and look down the lines at (possibly) a teensy weensy twist, I can't tell which way the twist goes!
That's OK if just one pair is involved - try one way, and if it makes the twist worse I just go the other way. But if all 4 lines are involved, and there's a possibility that one pair has accidentally passed between the other, any attempts at untwisting are bound to lead to disaster.
So if I see (from the kite end) that there's a twist anywhere, I walk towards the handles passing the offending lines over my fingers. Usually it works. But if I get into a ghastly mess 5 yards from the handles, I have to go back, lay the kite down, then detach the lines from the handles and play finger-knitting until the lines are clear. Then re-attach the handles, set up the kite again, go back to the handles, and off we go!
Admittedly I do get plenty of exercise this way. But commonsense tells me there must be a simpler way.
Seales, I like the two-pairs approach. If the problem persists I'll give it a try.

First steps

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:37 pm
by daz larsen
Once I have un wound the lines and attached to the kite,I grab both brake lines and walk back to the handles.If there are any twists,pay attention to which way you need to un twist,release the lines and pick up the handles one at a time and remove the twists(remembering to keep the bottom of the handle pointing at the kite so not to cause a flip over)this always works for me,hope this helps

Re: First steps

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:12 pm
by stuartF
I'm at about the same place as Brian, he posts my questions about an hour before I think about doing so, but not this time. ;)
I really need a solution to the "End caps popping out" problem". Is pegging the handles and walking to the kite (yet again) to put them back in the Rev equivalent of the "Walk of Shame"?
I've thought of a couple of solutions:-
1. Put a lump of snot on the end cap, similar to what Mark puts on the lower spreader ferrule on Talon ULs (but I don't know what it is)
2. Tightening the bungies by undoing and retying the knots, (but that looks a bit difficult / risky)

Any Ideas??


Re: First steps

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:26 pm
by Tregolwyn
My Revs both came with the end cap bungees a bit loose and the end caps did keep popping out. I undid them and retied them. They are harder to get on now but don't pop out so I assume I did the right thing.


Re: First steps

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:27 pm
by Jezza
They shouldnt pop out under normal flying really, if they do the shock cord needs tightening as Tregolwn suggested. The cord normally gets a bit more stretchy as time goes on so it'll get a little easier to put them over the end of the rods.

Re: First steps

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:28 pm
by LittleSkink2
to add my 2 peneth

on all my Revs the bungee seems to get slack sooner or later, my EXP was too loose from new. It is dead easy to add another knot a bit further in and leave the old one alone if you are worried - might be easier to do it when the kite is unassembled at home though

as to line management I found getting the right discipline for me makes all the difference

New lines are spread out on the field and run through individually a couple of times to remove any twists (I also check lengths at the same time, to about 5-10mm). Makes them less tangle prone in the first place

Then the right hand pair is larks headed together at kite end. And then the left pair. Now the ends of both pairs are hooked onto the winder with right side up and wound onto the figure 8 back to the peg. Here I put the winder on the ground and larks head the line pairs again and finish winding with right side on top

When it comes to set up I lay out handles and attach right side first (1st off winder) and put handle behind the peg with top of the handle outward to right. Then connect left handle and place it on the peg with top to the left.

Pick up the winder and turn it over to remove the twist from having put the left handle/lines on top of the right set and walk lines out

At the kite end lift off the two pairs and place them to the left and right where they will connect. Remove larks head and spread the lines - you should get an untwisted pair back to the handles. If there is a twist simply rotate the pair to remove. Repeat on other side

It probably takes longer to type than to do. In all of this I am aiming to minimise loose ends and rotation of line.

Mostly it works fine, the only big problem I have had with quad lines was a Sandsend on the Yorks coast when some plonker tried to drive his boat tractor over my lines on the beach while I was setting up - they had to become became 25ft trick lines in the end . . .