Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum

Moderators: Craig, Andy S

 
User avatar
Infinitive
Topic Author
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:05 pm
Location: Bristol

Skyline Horizon

Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:56 pm

Image

I bought these lines two months ago, wanting to try a different brand. They are expensive (I paid £27 for 2x35m@75kg, yes I know I could have got them much cheaper on Bilbo but I like to buy a couple of items a year from my local kite shop) so I expected good things. The lines are extremely smooth, and reminded me of LPG, thing is I don't like the noise that LPG makes when twisted under tension - it is only a little niggle as they are good lines, but the creak offends me. I was delighted to find that Skylines make no noise when twisted. One other problem that I have had with LPG in the past is the sleeving loosing structural integrity and becoming all bloated and unable to hold a larkshead. The Skylines have not had this problem yet. Having now been flown in strong winds, they haven't shown any stretch difference and no correction has been needed as yet.

There is one problem with Skylines though, and that is their winder. I do not know which imbecile designed it, but the geometry of the winder means that it will not unwind if you pop your thumb through the hole and pull the lines off... you need to manually tip the winder up and down for the lines to come off. I immediately put them onto a Climax winder, but still, I find it amazing that such a simple device could be designed incorrectly.

Of course, the most important thing for lines is longevity, as they really are pricey. I'll update this post when I know how they fair.
-------------------------------------- Al --------------------------------------
 
User avatar
StuartB
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 11:14 pm
Location: South Manchester, UK

Re: Skyline Horizon

Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:08 pm

Infinitive wrote:
One other problem that I have had with LPG in the past is the sleeving loosing structural integrity and becoming all bloated and unable to hold a larkshead.

I've had this problem with both Shanti (after a month or so) and Climax yellow (after a couple of years). I think it is due to the line pulling through the knot, which you'd expect to happen more quickly with the smoother Shanti.

Solution: a double knot on the loop or a knot at each end of the sleeved sections before they are knotted into a loop (I have tried both but not for long enough to be sure that both methods have fixed the problem).
 
User avatar
Bodyflight
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:28 am
Location: Cornwall/Bedford
Contact:

Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:39 pm

Sleeve your lines yourself, in some de-cored bridle ine. Don't take the end of the flying line out of the end of the sleeve (heat seal the end shut) - instead work loose the braid of the sleeve a little and pass it out of the side wall of the sleeve, about 10mm from the end. Tie a figure-8 knot in the flying line and pull the sleeve braid tight before pulling everything into place, so the knot rests against the outside of the sleeve but cannot pass through. Then knot/loop your sleeving as you like it.
No more saggy sleeving!
 
User avatar
sftonkin
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:43 am
Location: Fordingbridge
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:55 am

I had this pull-through problem when I started flying. Roy Reed showed me how to solve it by tying an overhand knot at each end of the sleeving before tying it into a loop. Since then I've never had the problem and my favourite (Shanti) line-set must have had well over a hundred hours of use.
 
User avatar
StuartB
Posts: 1097
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 11:14 pm
Location: South Manchester, UK

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:47 pm

sftonkin wrote:
I had this pull-through problem when I started flying. Roy Reed showed me how to solve it by tying an overhand knot at each end of the sleeving before tying it into a loop. Since then I've never had the problem and my favourite (Shanti) line-set must have had well over a hundred hours of use.

I didn't have the problem at first because I used the pre-knotting method from the start (probably saw it on a website or video). It's only when I became lazy and stopped bothering that it has started to happen. As it took a couple of years for my Climax lines to start doing it I have a lot of lines to re-sleeve, although it's getting to be time to remove the worn bits near the ends now anyway.

If you are starting from scratch and making up new lines, I suspect that knotting both ends of the sleeves before tying the loops, combined with sleeves that are exactly the same length, will help to ensure that the finished lines are the same length.
 
User avatar
Craig
Site Admin and Supporter
Site Admin and Supporter
Posts: 5242
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Epsom Downs, near the red cross.

Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:52 pm

StuartB wrote:
If you are starting from scratch and making up new lines, I suspect that knotting both ends of the sleeves before tying the loops, combined with sleeves that are exactly the same length, will help to ensure that the finished lines are the same length.


That's what I do.
 
User avatar
Jason
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 2744
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: QLD

Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:57 pm

I never sleeve. They never snap. It's a total myth and waste of time IMHO.
Jason.
Image
 
User avatar
audiorob
Posts: 965
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:40 pm
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:09 pm

Jason wrote:
I never sleeve. They never snap. It's a total myth and waste of time IMHO.


It's not a myth, the overhand and overhand loop do reduce the line's breaking strength.

BUT, it doesn't matter in the slightest because there are often imperfections in the line (or damage) that will cause the line to break elsewhere way before the knot will, especially if the knot is tied properly.

I don't sleeve anymore at all and have not broken a single line near the knot. It's always been +/- 5m of the center.
Anyway this cake is great.
It's so delicious and moist
 
User avatar
Craig
Site Admin and Supporter
Site Admin and Supporter
Posts: 5242
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Epsom Downs, near the red cross.

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:18 pm

Jason wrote:
I never sleeve. They never snap. It's a total myth and waste of time IMHO.



Jason you're a true freestylee rebel, you probably go commando too :shock:
 
User avatar
datenland
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 396
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:16 am
Location: Hamburg, Ge
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:38 pm

You are probably right. But it looks important and makes you feel professional!

Also It's easier to tie to the kite and the straps?

Erik
You can make your neighbours think that you have fluorescent lights in all the rooms in your house by quickly turning the lights on and off several times before leaving them on.
 
User avatar
kareloh
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:27 pm
Location: Rotterdam, Holland.
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:45 pm

audiorob wrote:
Jason wrote:
I never sleeve. They never snap. It's a total myth and waste of time IMHO.


It's not a myth, the overhand and overhand loop do reduce the line's breaking strength.


There are some knots which actually increase the strenght of the knots, mostly used on dyneema fishing lines to connect lures or leaders. The Bimini-twist is one of them (and has acool name!).
 
User avatar
ObijuanKenobe
Posts: 1799
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 12:16 pm
Location: Barendrecht, Nederland
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:30 pm

Wow...if you weren't going to sleeve, that knot looks IDEAL.

I might just try this. Thanks guys.

And yeah, the sleeve makes the end stronger for sure...and for sure they never break there. Ha ha.

obi
Image
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
 
User avatar
Zippy8
Posts: 4865
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:20 pm

Sleeving also guards against abrasion, to which Spectra™ is notoriously susceptible especially against other materials (such as the dacron-covered lines which we use for bridles).

Sleeve, don't sleeve :huh: - I'm pretty sure it's possible to construct convincing arguments either way. :-k

Mike.
 
User avatar
Vee
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:46 pm
Location: Next to a flying field in Northamptonshire

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:06 pm

Lets hijack this thread

audiorob wrote:
I don't sleeve anymore at all and have not broken a single line near the knot. It's always been +/- 5m of the center.


Mine always break ~ 5m from the kite.
Love Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Needs to fly more, now that I can.
 
User avatar
Zippy8
Posts: 4865
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
Contact:

Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:20 pm

It's always been +/- 5m of the center.

Mine always break ~ 5m from the kite.


So...... (mental arithmetic :-k ) 20m lines and you agree ?

(Sorry but I can't resolve it for -5m - are you using a dog stake ?)

Mike.