Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum

Moderators: Craig, Andy S

 
User avatar
tunemx
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:44 pm
Contact:

Sailcloth?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:36 pm

Anybody has experience with this stuff?
http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/inde ... 08_229_130

Is this a good replacement for icarex? I calculated this to be 25g/m2 is that correct?

Thanks!
 
User avatar
SteveC
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Sailcloth?

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:53 pm

Hmmm...I could be very wrong here, but..as it is sailcloth I'm guessing that the 0.75 ounce quoted refers to the spinnaker weight. According to the info I have, 0.75 oz spinnaker = roughly 41-46grm/Sq/M. But I could be wrong... :?
Current Bag:- HQ Shadow, Spiderkites Zodarion, Flying Wings Soul, Old blue HQ Jive , 'PAW' modded HQ Maestro II, Delta Hawk,
 
User avatar
spence602
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:08 pm
Location: USA TX Houston
Contact:

Re: Sailcloth?

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:22 pm

I believe the poly would be closer to icarex - but there's not that many colors to choose from. Contact Steve and see if he has any remnants of whatever color poly you need.

I buy fabric (.75 oz - but usually 'seconds') from there most of the time. No problems with it other than the occasional squashed bug or small stain (if any blemish at all).

Here's a little chart that may help you.
Spence
 
User avatar
Ian Newham
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:57 pm
Location: Notts/Derby UK
Contact:

Re: Sailcloth?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:18 pm

.75 Challenge is similar to Carrington K42 - a nice nylon ripstop but nothing like Icarex
 
Old Tom
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:09 am
Location: London, England

Re: Sailcloth?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:35 pm

The variation is due to how different Countries compute the weight of sailcloth- USA uses a weight based on 28" width and 36" length to give weight per yard, UK uses 36" width and 36" length to give (true) weight per square yard and Europe uses 1m width by 1m length to give weight per square metre. Thus 0.75 ounce USA is about 1oz/sq yd UK or 1.15oz/sq M (Europe= 33g per sq M) so fairly light sailcloth.
 
andre_e
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:38 am

Re: Sailcloth?

Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:00 pm

Its even more complicated, a lot of sailcloth is listed with the weight before the coating is applied.
 
User avatar
tunemx
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Sailcloth?

Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:06 pm

thanks to everyone for the replies, you lit some light :)
 
User avatar
Will S
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Sailcloth?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:08 am

Actually it gets even more complicated than that... A .75 weight sailcloth is aimed to be used in the range of spinnakers that use a .75 oz cloth - the actual weight of the cloth can range hugely from there. most .75 oz nylon is about 1-1.25 oz / sq yd (real measurements) but there are outliers. Once upon a time the measurements correlated to some system, but modern weaves and coatings have totally messed up our classification system.

Nylon and polyester are extremely different materials. They don't really mix well.

There are materials that are better than icarex in many applications, but I have yet to see any that are a real direct replacement and nothing really good comes in nearly as wide a range of colors.
 
andre_e
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:38 am

Re: Sailcloth?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:16 pm

The kind of fabric you use also influences how your kite flies,

a nylon sail generally produces a smoother flight, since the stretch helps to soften gusts somewhat. While a Icarex sail reacts more direct to changes in the wind speed. And a mylar or cuben sail is even more unforgiving to gusts then Icarex.

And another trick point in the weight discussion, lots of .75oz fabrics are just 0.5oz fabrics with thicker coating :)
 
User avatar
Old Greebo
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:55 pm
Location: The wettest middle of wet, wet Wales

Re: Sailcloth?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:04 pm

A man goes into a sailmaker's shop and asks for half a metre of three quarter ounce green ripstop polyester spinnaker material.
What he gets is a piece of green fabric that's probably ripstop polyester spinnaker material. The reinforcement threads make squares that are one-sixth of an inch across. Does that sound right?
It's 153cm wide, average 56.5cm long (or vice versa). 0.86445 sq m. It weighs 38.3 grams. 44.3 grams per sq.m.
Alternatively, it's 9.305 sq.ft., and it works out at a smidge over 1.3 ounces per square yard. NOT three-quarter-ounce!

I actually bought the stuff for two reasons. Firstly, to make a replacement kite bag. Secondly, as practice for buying kitemaking stuff once I can find a programme that will open the Invictus RAR files!

I suspect spinnaker fabric just won't do for the Invictus.
Brian. (Past it, but reaching back!)
Silver Fox 2.5; HQ Shadow SUL; Rev 1.5 SLE; Spiderkites URO; Etc...
 
User avatar
RoyReed
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Sailcloth?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:08 pm

Old Greebo wrote:
Secondly, as practice for buying kitemaking stuff once I can find a programme that will open the Invictus RAR files!

WinZip
Must fly
Roy
REEDDESIGN Web Design
 
User avatar
Will S
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Sailcloth?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:24 am

That's a pretty normal weight for a .75 weight poly like what you describe. Also you must remember that sailmakers ounces are done on a 28.5x36 measurement.

Currently very few spinnakers are made of polyester. You'll have better luck at a sail loft finding a decent lightweight nylon than poly.

The best stuff is the fabric used on small performance skiffs. AirX 500 or 600 and Formulon 60 are excellent lightweight materials for kites. Airx 700 and Formulon 75, although slightly heavier, are still great. Lightness isn't really an important factor aside from the balance of the kite for anything except really light ULs. The difference will only be a few grams on the finished kite. Ask at the sail loft - there's a good chance they have something nice lying around.

I totally agree with Andre as well - and for the most part, that smoothness given by nylon makes a kite much more enjoyable to fly.

What you don't want for a performance sport kite is an old .75 weight cruising fabric. That's what a lot of really old school kites were made of and that's what nylon's gotten a bit of a bad rap from. Modern performance nylon really is outstanding stuff. Now if we could just get it in the variety of colors icarex comes in we'd be all set.

Of course a different sail material than the designer designed the kite for will affect other things, so when building a kite perfected for performance with PC-31, it's safest to stick with that. Between the different sail dynamics and the change in balance and moments of inertia, a kite made from a different material can be quite different from the original.
 
andre_e
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:38 am

Re: Sailcloth?

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:19 pm

Skytex 27 is currently all the rage for ultralight paragliders and UL foils, available in a wide color range and less expensive then icarex. And there is the elusive AIRX 400N as well.
 
LisaUK
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:07 am

Re: Sailcloth?

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:13 am

Hello! I know this is YEARS after the original post, but was very informative (I was gobsmacked when I found out how the yanks calculate weight) but...well, am doing the Ripstop Search as a beginner SO...things have, as always, moved on. Found a few oldies..Chikara- nice. AirX700, yes, heavy, but, weirdly, the flo-green ACTUALLY fluoresces. Bit 'plasticy', too. Some unnamed 38g that actually weighs 46g, crispy tho, AirX500, silvery, crispy, nice. Some Chinese from 9KM. Bit soft, but not unreasonable, slinky and weighed what it said- 42-43g psm. Anyone else tried them? I ask cos they also have Icarex PC20 (35g). Wanted to go for Skytex27, but buying anything from Germany has become a no-no, post bloody Brexit, dammit! I didn't vote for it...on a tight budget, appreciate any input. Oh, thanks to Ian Newham for a very clearl, helpful bridle tutorial. Love the turntable analogy. L.