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Thomas*
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Competition kites & kayaks?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:08 am

How would you characterize a competition kite in terms of flying and flying inputs?

I know they are well built and expensive, but many kites are that without being competition (the Mantis for example).

A normal kayak is fairly easy to balance in the water (a big plus for the beginner), where a comp kayak is much harder but then it also moves a lot faster in the water (a big plus for the experinced).

Does anything similar go for kites? :?

Thanks
Thomas
 
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audiorob
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Re: Competition kites & kayaks?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:54 am

Thomas* wrote:
How would you characterize a competition kite in terms of flying and flying inputs?

I know they are well built and expensive, but many kites are that without being competition (the Mantis for example).

A normal kayak is fairly easy to balance in the water (a big plus for the beginner), where a comp kayak is much harder but then it also moves a lot faster in the water (a big plus for the experinced).

Does anything similar go for kites? :?

Thanks
Thomas


I tend to find that competition kites are much easier to fly, and always have.

You get what you pay for.
Anyway this cake is great.
It's so delicious and moist
 
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Bodyflight
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Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:43 pm

You get what you pay for.


...unless you're uygur!
(PM me with you're details uygur, and I'll figure out the postage cost)
 
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TobyR
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Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:09 pm

A normal kayak is fairly easy to balance in the water (a big plus for the beginner), where a comp kayak is much harder but then it also moves a lot faster in the water (a big plus for the experinced).


If this is the case, I would say kites are the complete opposite of kayaks. I haven't much experience of flying competition kites but from what I've read they are often larger and slower than "normal", or non-competition, kites (depending on the competition of course! I'm thinking ballet routines and such here, and of kites like the full-sized Fury), and maybe even sacrifice some trickiness for greater precision (but perhaps the gap is closing). For these reasons they are often also recommended as beginner kites, although I expect rarely used as such because of the price tag and the fear of breaking.

I guess then that the equivalent of a comp kayak would be a dedicated trick kite, which will do a yo-yo if you cough but aren't necessarily much good at competition. Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm talking bulls**t.
 
Thomas*
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Re: Competition kites & kayaks?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:22 am

audiorob wrote:
Thomas* wrote:
How would you characterize a competition kite in terms of flying and flying inputs?

I know they are well built and expensive, but many kites are that without being competition (the Mantis for example).

A normal kayak is fairly easy to balance in the water (a big plus for the beginner), where a comp kayak is much harder but then it also moves a lot faster in the water (a big plus for the experinced).

Does anything similar go for kites? :?

Thanks
Thomas


I tend to find that competition kites are much easier to fly, and always have.

You get what you pay for.


So there is no "minuses" in going for a competition kite apart from the price?
 
Thomas*
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Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:28 am

TobyR wrote:
A normal kayak is fairly easy to balance in the water (a big plus for the beginner), where a comp kayak is much harder but then it also moves a lot faster in the water (a big plus for the experinced).


If this is the case, I would say kites are the complete opposite of kayaks. I haven't much experience of flying competition kites but from what I've read they are often larger and slower than "normal", or non-competition, kites (depending on the competition of course! I'm thinking ballet routines and such here, and of kites like the full-sized Fury), and maybe even sacrifice some trickiness for greater precision (but perhaps the gap is closing). For these reasons they are often also recommended as beginner kites, although I expect rarely used as such because of the price tag and the fear of breaking.

I guess then that the equivalent of a comp kayak would be a dedicated trick kite, which will do a yo-yo if you cough but aren't necessarily much good at competition. Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm talking bulls**t.


Thanks, Toby.

So you are saying they are actually easier to fly, but less tricky than trick kites.

Which kites would you consider dedicated trick kites, thanks!
 
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SteveB
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Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:32 pm

I'd say it depends on the competition.

A competition kite is designed to do a job. For ballet/precision , and especially for pairs and teams you want a kite that behaves predictably. You may also want a set of kites (UL, std, vented) for different conditions.

For individual competition you might be prepared to use a kite that is a little less predictable but is more trickable. Again you may want different kites for different conditions.

And for a trick competition you will want a kite that you gel with and that gives you the fullest range of your repertoire of tricks and you may have to improvise as you push the envelope of your and the kites abilities.

Of course a lot of it comes own to personal preference too. But I'd say the 'easiest' kites to fly are 'near competition' kites. Full sized competition kites (eg Furys) can be a bit of a beast to fly. They will do exactly what you want, but they are undoubtedly hard work

Whereas a quantum pro (for example) is slightly smaller and definitely easier to fly, and while I have seen it used in competition (successfully), I wouldn't use it in competition or call it a competition kite. You may of course disagree :)
Gotta fly,

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Zippy8
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Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:56 am

SteveB wrote:
Whereas a quantum pro (for example) is slightly smaller and definitely easier to fly, and while I have seen it used in competition (successfully), I wouldn't use it in competition or call it a competition kite.

Would this be the same QPro that was used to win two World Team Championships that you're not calling a competition kite ? :-k

Mike.
 
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Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:10 am

I herd level one genesis evo 1 is used as a competition kite
Is this true?
thats one of the reasons i orded one :)
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Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:19 am

Quite possibly. I know the non Evo Genesis was(is?) used quite successfully in competition.
Rob
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TobyR
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Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:37 am

Which kites would you consider dedicated trick kites, thanks!


Help me out here guys! Not too sure with the most up-to-date kites if any of them have been designed purely as trick kites, with no consideration for how they fly in a straight line or do corners. What would be the last kite that was true for? Stranger Level 7? I dunno!

But, out of the very few kites in my bag, the Fury.85 (which probably comes under SteveB's definition of a 'near competition' kite) is the easiest to fly and the DeepSpace is by far the easiest to trick and not so easy, at least in my hands, to do perfect corners, stalls, tip stabs, landings, etc. every time, because it flies faster and is less stable. However, in the hands of somebody like Lars the DeepSpace becomes a pretty damn good ballet/precision kite and is certainly a good bet for individual competition.

So where does that leave us on dedicated trick kites? Somebody with better knowledge than me please....
 
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Bodyflight
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Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:44 am

Most trick/freestyle kites these days have got to the stage where they'll do reasonable straight lines/corners without sacrificing trickability. They won't be quite as good at it as a standard precision kite but you're onto a winner both ways with most modern kites.

If you just want tricks, take a look at Jest of Eve's Talon which has been getting great reviews and looks fiendishly trickable in the videos posted here recently. It seems to be purely dedicated to freestyle without as much precision crossover as many recent kites. Mark might correct me on this, as I haven't flown one.

Or, other 'latest models' are the Benson DeepSpace (which I have), the R-Sky Next, the Atelier Transfer xt.z, the Akuji Comp, the AirOeuvre Mohawk XS or, yes, the Fury 8.5.
If you want the very latest you could wait for the publicly-released version of the Virus 2 (if it sees the light of day) when it comes out. There are many more - scan the forum and see what you like the look of.