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Thomas*
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How to get better looking cascades?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:12 pm

I think I have managed to do cascades using the two pop method. But I not satisfied with how they look :cry:

When I pop the top wing from a stall in a vertical position (nose pointing straight left or right), the kite does not go in a belly down nose away position (which I would like it to), but rather "rotates" aound itself. Making a small pop with the other hand very quickly after the first pop will stop the rotation, so the kites ends in the correct position facing exact opposite as in the start position.

So start and end positions are OK, but I don't like the look of the movement in between. I have been studying Randyg very good tutorial, nut cannot mimick the kite movements exactly...

Do you have any advice on how to ensure that the kite goes from vertical to belly down/nose away instead of starting a rotating. :?:

Thanks!
Thomas
 
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randyg
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:30 pm

What kite are you using to work on the Cascade?
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datenland
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:42 pm

Might be this: If you want the kite to go on it's belly, it has to go a bit away from you. So there should be a little slack after the set-up-pop, just enough to let the kite flare out into the position you want it to have.

Erik
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Thomas*
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:58 pm

randyg wrote:
What kite are you using to work on the Cascade?


Hi Randy Greenway,

I am very glad that you take the time to help. I am a big fan of your very good tutorials, they are very encouraging to watch and they have helped me along a lot! :-D Thanks.

Back to your question. I fly a Quantum Pro.

I can see from your tutorial that you fly different kites, and they all do the moves a bit different but still the same "way". I like that it looks like the kite is kind of "jumping" from one wing tip to the other in your movie, where I find that I "just" rotate my kite instead...

If I should describe my inputs, I pop the top wing semi hard when the kite is vertical, having the other hand semi slack I guess, then very quickly after the first pop I take up slack with the non popping hand, stopping the kite.

Hope I am making sense :?
 
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audiorob
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:03 pm

After the pop to flare the kite, slack both hands a bit and take a breath.

Dont be in a hurry, take your time and let the kite do what it wants to naturally.
Anyway this cake is great.
It's so delicious and moist
 
Thomas*
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:08 pm

datenland wrote:
Might be this: If you want the kite to go on it's belly, it has to go a bit away from you. So there should be a little slack after the set-up-pop, just enough to let the kite flare out into the position you want it to have.

Erik


Thanks, Erik.

Could you clarify the "go away" part. Do you mean slack in both lines , or only slack to the top wing that is about to be popped?
 
Thomas*
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:18 pm

audiorob wrote:
After the pop to flare the kite, slack both hands a bit and take a breath.

Dont be in a hurry, take your time and let the kite do what it wants to naturally.


I'll try the more laid back approach, thanks!
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:52 pm

If...and only if...you are interested in REALLY getting this trick, you need to use three pops per turn. This is called the "french cascade" by some. You transition into a beautiful "asteroid" if you can get the hang of it before you progress to the comete.

Staying with the two-input method: Try to feel the wing as it rises to vertical...so that your input is given just as the line catches it at vertical (second input, harder). Then lift the other side (first input), and again...feel the lines as the wing lifts, catch it the top again (second input, harder).

obi
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datenland
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:01 pm

clarify the "go away" part


The first pull is giving the kite wing a "down" and possibly slighly "back" impulse, putting the kite into the correct position for the turning pull. So the slack im thinking of should be with this pull. I got it right in the beginning when I did a half step forward at the same moment with this pull. In the beginning its easier like this because you get some slack to your lines without having to control it with yout hands.
There should be a description of what your feet do with every trick!

The cascade can be flown in very different styles, laid back, slow and with pronounced movements like Rob sais but also very sharp and snappy (good for stronger winds). When I get a new kite I normally try to do Cascades and Flicflacs first, they can really teach you about the "built in" rhythm and balance of the kite.

The QP is perfect to study this!

Greetings, Erik
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Infinitive
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:01 pm

ObijuanKenobe wrote:
If...and only if...you are interested in REALLY getting this trick, you need to use three pops per turn.


I'm very proud to say that my cascades are very good looking - certainly the most polished of my repertoire - but I never use more than two inputs. When I cascade, one input starts the axel rotation, the next pulls the rotating wing up. Axels and half-axels I do in the same way, ABW called it "pop-and-lift". The lifting motion means there is no need to use a set-up pop at all, as your wing'll be ready to go anyway, and you won't lose altitude.

If you require 3 inputs, you're flying a shite kite :-D
-------------------------------------- Al --------------------------------------
 
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Jest_of_EVE
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:17 pm

I have a love of freezing each cascade iteration with an extra small pop that kills the kite in position for the next half-axel. It looks great and is very rewarding. You can also allow it to 'slide' down the window a little before the next axel.

It's a trick that just looks good whether you know what trick flying is or not, it just looks so deliberate.

Mark
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:23 pm

Sorry.

I would never suggest three inputs are 'required'...or that I am a good at the cascade with three inputs. However, if you want a cascade which falls like a ladder in any wind (i.e. the TP version), this is the sure bet. That's what I mean by "getting this trick".

Lars can do both, and has tried to show me how this three pop works. I still can't really sustain it. I too am satisfied with my two-pop... :) ...can be either relaxed or almost comete-like. BTW: I find rising cascades only a matter of subtle timing with the two-pop method.

obi
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audiorob
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Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:31 pm

There's also the 1 pop cascade...

*snicker*

My new mission is to figure out a single half axel with 5 distinct inputs. Then... I will take that new found skill and apply it to razor's. I will sell my idea to gillette for BILLIONS!!!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hahaha
ha...
*ahem*
*snicker*
Anyway this cake is great.

It's so delicious and moist
 
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randyg
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Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:12 am

audiorob wrote:
There's also the 1 pop cascade...

*snicker*

My new mission is to figure out a single half axel with 5 distinct inputs. Then... I will take that new found skill and apply it to razor's. I will sell my idea to gillette for BILLIONS!!!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hahaha
ha...
*ahem*
*snicker*

Since I am left-handed, will you be offering a razor for the left hand? :lol:
Randy

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TobyR
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Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:56 am

Hi Thomas,

Before you get too concerned with getting perfect cascade rotations, can you do a decent-looking half-axel on its own yet? Sorry if I underestimate your ability here :oops: However, if you can't, or maybe even if you can already, perhaps try this:
1. Fly side-to-side of the window, doing half-axels at the edge where the kite is stalled and they are easy. Practice this until you can get them looking nice and flat.
2. Gradually do them closer and closer together towards the middle of the window (you will have to give more slack for the same effect), until...
3. There is no flying in between each beautiful, flat half-axel, et voila, you have your Randy G-looking cascade!? :D

PS. For the best half-axels, I find it helps to give a very small `pop' with the bottom hand first, immediately (no hesitation at all) before the main input with the top hand, followed immediately by lots of slack from both hands. This first input pulls the lower wing of the kite slightly towards you, just like with a regular axel where if you want to pop with the right hand, for example, you pull the left wing of the kite slightly forward first.

I don't know whether this applies to cascades really - perhaps the kite is already in ideal position after the last rotation, or perhaps it's not so important. Can anyone comment on this?

Good luck 8)
Toby