Fractured Axel

jimothy · Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:08 pm

Fair enough, I stand corrected :oops:

, but how d'you do it then, juha. I obviously speak for more than myself when I say that pulling one line makes the kite spin in the plane conecting myself to the kite (more or less) rather than the rotation you talk about which is orrientated at 90 degrees to this.

Also it seems like a very unnatural way for the kite to rotate, over on to its belly, as this surely means the wing you've pulled has to push flat through the air.

jrharrold · Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:10 pm

The evotech does a latteral roll if you pull slowly and do not give slack with the other hand. You can roll the kite around the spine several rotations (heading groundwards) and stop in back in a fade. If you know whats happening to the kite it looks impressive, if you don't, it looks as though its ready to crash. Its a trick that I find is not always repeatable on command

Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:56 pm

Juha wrote:
The end position of the lateral roll finds the kite with its nose toward the flyer, belly down,

"Belly down" I'm now very confused

Juha · Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:11 pm

jimothy wrote:
I obviously speak for more than myself when I say that pulling one line makes the kite spin in the plane conecting myself to the kite (more or less) rather than the rotation you talk about which is orrientated at 90 degrees to this.

IMO, It depends on how easily the kite in question likes to backspin. For instance: with an extremely backspin-happy kite like the Gemini or L1 Jack in the Box, the tug initiating the lateral roll needs to be quite light to prevent the kite from starting to spin in a plane like you said. I usually don't find this a problem, though, and it probably isn't as much of a factor as I make it out to be.

SUL kites can also be difficult to roll around the spine due to the relatively large sail area and small weight/momentum. The wings catch too much air which stops the rotation.

With kites that you have to fight to get them to backspin, lateral rolls are more straightforward. HQ's Jam Session Millenium is an example of these (at least for me) - from a fade, just give one of the lines a yank - any sort of yank - and it will usually roll perfectly around the spine.

Also it seems like a very unnatural way for the kite to rotate, over on to its belly, as this surely means the wing you've pulled has to push flat through the air.

Yes, but it works. Try it. From a fade, most kites resist the backspin more than the 180 degree lateral roll. Strange but true.

Juha

Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:22 pm

Someone needs to write a realistic kite emulator for late night discussions like these... I want to go try this now.

Juha... I take it that the Nirvana, being relatively hard (for me at least) to backspin should do this lateral roll? I guess my Outerspace will be the same?

Juha · Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:35 pm

cbh wrote:
"Belly down" I'm now very confused

Hmm. Are we even talking about the same thing here? :shock:

Here's a nice example of a lateral roll - it takes place right after the kite goes from pancake to fade and is followed by a backflip:

http://www.prismkites.com/new-site/mobius4-edit-mpv.avi

Juha

Martin · Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:53 am

Half backspin by any other name (although the example here i would say is a bad example of a half backspin)... looks like the pilot was going for a jacobs ladder but fudged it

Juha · Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:24 am

Martin wrote:
looks like the pilot was going for a jacobs ladder but fudged it

IIRC, the "Moebius" combo in the vid (pancake to fade -> lateral roll out -> backflip -> fast Lazy Susan -> exit) is actually older than the Jacob's Ladder. I like it. When you get it to go fluently without any hesitation or setups between the different parts, it looks great.

Juha

Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:37 am

Martin wrote:
Half backspin by any other name (although the example here i would say is a bad example of a half backspin)... looks like the pilot was going for a jacobs ladder but fudged it

I concur... that's what my fluffed backspins look like.. oh well, at least now they're not Fluffed Backspins, they're Lateral Rolls!! :cool:

jimothy · Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:45 am

Oh well at least now we're all "singing from the same song sheet" (just for those of you playing bullshit bingo out there).

It looks like lots of us were writing off this lateral roll as a failed backspin, but I for one am going to have to refine my technique on the jacob's ladder to include the *roll, then 180 flip into turtle*, rather than the *half backspin then 360 flip* which is what I've been doing.

Hey andy, how about changing all our avatars so that they're doing nice smooth lateral rolls, and the motion gets engrained in our brains :lol:

don't go mad, only joking

Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:14 am

I think its really depends on the kite your using as to how it looks, some kites lay much flatter than others. Lateral roll /half backspin, you start in a fade and pull one line, slack the other, what happens after that depends on the kite and further inputs.

jimothy · Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:55 pm

Tried this over the weekend (sounds like I was one of very few people to get out, I think Cardiff must have got the best of the weather)' and found that the lateral roll needs a much weaker pull than that to get the kite spinning on it's back.

It's true: the kite rotates around it's spine, to belly down position, the nose rolls up, and you're into flying position. I think I'd previously been pulling too sharply, causing the kite to spin on its back before the wing had a chance to rise up and over.

Martin · Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:05 pm

Hmmmm you fly a Gemini, so which spine are you talking about

Davey · Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:32 pm

Martin wrote:
Hmmmm you fly a Gemini, so which spine are you talking about

Ah-ha...

How do you 'unfracture' a fractured axel?