Fractured Axel

krijn wrote:

deca-Newton, and that is about the same as kg

Thanks Krijn, I was writing while you submitted...

daN - lbs
25 - 55
40 - 80
65 - 140
110 - 240

FTFY

40 - 90

Thanks!

... but see?
There are already discrepancies...

It's only because Craig was using a liberal rounding to the nearest 5 DAN.

1 DaN = 2.2 lbf so:

daN - lbs
25 - 55
40 - 88
65 - 143
110 - 242

1 daN = (roughly) 1kg = 2.2lbs

So as a rough guide

20- 25daN (kg) or around 50-55lb for your (S)ul's - 15-20m length is usually OK.

38-50 daN (kg) or around 80 - 110lb for your standards - 25-30m

70-75daN (kg) or around 150lb for high winds - 30-35 m

Climax is good and (reasonably) cheap.

LPG is ( I understand) also very good but expensive - at least it is in the UK - at around 3 times the price of Climax - Climax is around £20 LPG ( On Ebay UK) is around £60!

Craig sells Shanti spectra lines through the shop here which I haven't tried but I would expect it to be good stuff if Craig sells it.

From what you have already said, it sounds like the lines you have are probably basic dyneema so any good quality set of line will give you a noticable improvement.

If you want very high quality lines,
get yourself Liros DC lines.

DC40 for low wind/low pulling kites,
DC60 for medium
and DC100 and up if you need to control kites with good umpf.

The comparison between the DC and stuff like climax is night and day.

andre_e wrote:

If you want very high quality lines,
get yourself Liros DC lines.

DC40 for low wind/low pulling kites,
DC60 for medium
and DC100 and up if you need to control kites with good umpf.

The comparison between the DC and stuff like climax is night and day.

OK, thanks, although my new lines are already on their way:
Climax Profiline Leinenset 2x15m 20daN
Climax Profiline Leinenset 2x25m 38daN
Climax Profiline Leinenset 2x30m 55daN

I'm pretty sure they will be night and day with respect to my current lines anyway.
So I guess I still have a lot to learn until I get into more sophisticated lines as the Liros DC.

Thanks anyway!

Ara Ararauna wrote:

OK, thanks, although my new lines are already on their way:
Climax Profiline Leinenset 2x15m 20daN
Climax Profiline Leinenset 2x25m 38daN
Climax Profiline Leinenset 2x30m 55daN

I'm pretty sure they will be night and day with respect to my current lines anyway.
So I guess I still have a lot to learn until I get into more sophisticated lines as the Liros DC.

Thanks anyway!

I think you will find a BIG difference compared to your current lines Ara! one of my sets is 4 years old and, although very faded, is still going strong AND they have a handy nock remover/line equaliser built into the winder!

andre_e wrote:

If you want very high quality lines,
get yourself Liros DC lines.

DC40 for low wind/low pulling kites,
DC60 for medium
and DC100 and up if you need to control kites with good umpf.

The comparison between the DC and stuff like climax is night and day.

Andre, out of curiosity how are the Liros lines so much better? I've found Climax lines are thin, don't stretch, take lots of wraps without binding and last for years which pretty much ticks all the boxes for me?

andre_e wrote:

If you want very high quality lines,
get yourself Liros DC lines.

Andre not lying
They are really good.It`s my choice.DC40.After some time they are go softer.

But! For a very low wind I suggest to use Climax 38dan(30m long)
For very high wind still flying on Protec Red. or DC60 also will be a good choice.

Liros lines-best at winter time.Liros is made for pro sailers.For any weather condition.Always the best performance.No doubt.

I change my sets of lines once or even twice per year.My kites love me for that Hardly used lines its two steps backward.
Anyway Climax Pro is better than any basic spectra.

If you are more polyvalent(carving,ballet) lover--Liros is for you.



Alex

SteveC wrote:

Andre, out of curiosity how are the Liros lines so much better? I've found Climax lines are thin, don't stretch, take lots of wraps without binding and last for years which pretty much ticks all the boxes for me?

The Liros are thinner for the same breaking strength, they do stretch less, i can clearly feel that stretch from the climax line after having flown a liros DC. They have less creep, means they stay longer dimensional constant over time under load. They can be spliced, which for me as speed kiter is very important because it allows me to user thinner lines and also have a cleaner loop at the end.
Where the climax are better, they are slightly more slippery and they are available in thinner diameters for lower winds.

On the more esoteric front, Liros DC lines are designed to paraglider bridle specifications, while climax is pretty much fishing lines.

andre_e wrote:

SteveC wrote:

Andre, out of curiosity how are the Liros lines so much better? I've found Climax lines are thin, don't stretch, take lots of wraps without binding and last for years which pretty much ticks all the boxes for me?

The Liros are thinner for the same breaking strength, they do stretch less, i can clearly feel that stretch from the climax line after having flown a liros DC. They have less creep, means they stay longer dimensional constant over time under load. They can be spliced, which for me as speed kiter is very important because it allows me to user thinner lines and also have a cleaner loop at the end.
Where the climax are better, they are slightly more slippery and they are available in thinner diameters for lower winds.

On the more esoteric front, Liros DC lines are designed to paraglider bridle specifications, while climax is pretty much fishing lines.

Today I decided to measure one of my sets of lines.
I was not aware of how much lines could stretch so I was incredibly surprised!
The right line was around 8cm longer than the left!
I just couldn't believe it. I then realized that most of the tricks and hard pulls I do with my right so it has some logic behind it.
Needless to say I have been probably trying to compensate this huge difference for a long time and that must have hindered my flying...


Fortunately I have now equalized them and soon I will get my new ones.
I must check the other old set too...

When the lines where equal at the begin, then that is the effect of creep, irreversible elongation of material under load. It is small, but it adds up over time.
Especially in stuff like dyneema, which keeps on creeping forever, or until the line snaps or gets thrown out for been to old.

andre_e wrote:

When the lines where equal at the begin, then that is the effect of creep, irreversible elongation of material under load. It is small, but it adds up over time.
Especially in stuff like dyneema, which keeps on creeping forever, or until the line snaps or gets thrown out for been to old.

Oh! So good thing I'm getting some new ones!
These will probably snap soon...

Ara Ararauna wrote:

Today I decided to measure one of my sets of lines.
I was not aware of how much lines could stretch so I was incredibly surprised!
The right line was around 8cm longer than the left!
I just couldn't believe it. I then realized that most of the tricks and hard pulls I do with my right so it has some logic behind it.
Needless to say I have been probably trying to compensate this huge difference for a long time and that must have hindered my flying...


Fortunately I have now equalized them and soon I will get my new ones.
I must check the other old set too...

That is the disadvantage of colour coding the sleeving and always putting them on the kite in the same way. If you connected them randomly then the stretch would be more even over time.

We normally check all our linesets twice a year and re-equalise, anything more than 5mm out nd they get sorted. When we were competing we would buy new every other year, no matter what.