Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum

Moderators: Craig, Andy S, Jason

 
User avatar
SkyRags
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am
Location: On Raumati Beach, New Zealand...preferably ALWAYS

The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:59 am

Ok...Im sure this has been talked about a whole LOT...

I spotted some links in another thread about steveng's issues with his jive doing fades and such...so I took my kite out to practice the trick I most want to master...The Snap Stall...

The major basics I can do...spinning, push turns and flying the kite very close to the ground as well as basic stalls at the edge of the window to land...
Im beginning to realise how fine an art it really is...understanding that line tension/slack thing...but so far I can get the kite to hover at the edge of the window up to about half a meter from the ground on its side with me adjusting my arms and stance and walk...

So now...back to the Snap....Im wondering how hard is the tugs?....Ive noticed with my kite in decent winds that the 'da-dum' movement is a very small movement...if I do it too large my kite just dies in the air and cruples to the ground like I hit it with a fly swat

Does the movement differ per kite and on speed and strength of wind at all?...

So should I move faster and harder in stronger winds or vice versa?

Cheers

Oh btw...I had an attempt at a backflip per Prism video...I managed to pull one off...albeit I was buzzing too much to remember what came next :D

Stunt Kiting is addictive!!!...I told my wife if Im still kiting by my birthday to upgrade my kite lol
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
User avatar
Vee
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:46 pm
Location: Next to a flying field in Northamptonshire

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:10 am

Yes, the movements for all tricks will differ for both kite and wind conditions. It does take practice, but you will get used to how the kite flies and get a feel for it.

As far as the snap stall goes, try doing a quick push turn for a 90 degree corner and then immediately afterwards pushing with your other had til both your hands are level. the kite will stop momentarily, for a nice sharp corner pull both your hands back, or for a stall walk or run (depending on conditions) forward, doing that balancing thing.
Love Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Needs to fly more, now that I can.
 
User avatar
SkyRags
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am
Location: On Raumati Beach, New Zealand...preferably ALWAYS

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:40 am

Vee wrote:
As far as the snap stall goes, try doing a quick push turn for a 90 degree corner and then immediately afterwards pushing with your other had til both your hands are level. the kite will stop momentarily, for a nice sharp corner pull both your hands back, or for a stall walk or run (depending on conditions) forward, doing that balancing thing.


So...instead of pulling sharply on the upper wing...quickly pushing the bottom?...hmmm....that almost...seems.....easier?!?...less movements overall I guess...cheers...Ill try that next time I'm in the sky :D

One other...um...problem I seem to have...not that its really a problem...cos I enjoy it nonetheless....but when I turn my nose up at the window edge to stall...the kite does an involutary side slide back towards the middle...

Now, I'd prefer that my side slides be deliberate (once I know how to do one) - is there a way to counter this? as in, stop the kite sliding back to the centre and just staying still ( this happens even when I walk towards it)
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
User avatar
Jason
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 2744
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: QLD

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:52 am

Yes, as Vee says the speed and intensity varies with the wind. Also the snappier you can make the moves then I find the less input that will be required. I learned it from the Dodd Gross Flight School video (there might be a copy floating about in the library section of FA) and is explained well there with a split screen showing what's going on with your hands as the kite reacts. With practice, big kites can be stalled momentarily in high winds in the middle of the window. This is done more with the speed of the inputs to bang the air pressure from the sail quickly than from the size of those inputs.

Therefore as Vee suggests, push turns will also remove some of this pressure in the sail whereas a pull turn will increase the pressure in the sail. Increased sail pressure = forward momentum. which is the opposite of what you're trying to achieve and hence why it will work against you.
Jason.
Image
 
User avatar
Craig
Site Admin and Supporter
Site Admin and Supporter
Posts: 5240
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Epsom Downs, near the red cross.

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:54 pm

Do people still do snap stalls?
 
User avatar
SkyRags
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am
Location: On Raumati Beach, New Zealand...preferably ALWAYS

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:25 pm

Craig wrote:
Do people still do snap stalls?


I guess I do :D..since Im a noob to stunt kiting....you guys still call it stunt kiting aye?

Im also assuming that I need to learn stalls to get better at tricks anyways dont I?
Last edited by SkyRags on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
User avatar
SkyRags
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am
Location: On Raumati Beach, New Zealand...preferably ALWAYS

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:27 pm

Jason wrote:
This is done more with the speed of the inputs to bang the air pressure from the sail quickly than from the size of those inputs.

Therefore as Vee suggests, push turns will also remove some of this pressure in the sail whereas a pull turn will increase the pressure in the sail. Increased sail pressure = forward momentum. which is the opposite of what you're trying to achieve and hence why it will work against you.


Chur...speed vs size of input x strength of wind...makes sense...

Increased pressure from a pull also makes perfect sense...

Thanks heaps
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
User avatar
SteveC
Posts: 762
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:55 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:14 pm

You've obviously found the videos on the Prism site, have you seen the trick animations? These show the the hand movements for various tricks that you might find helpful.

http://www.prismkites.com/lounge-training.php

If you want a copy of a very good kite flying E book PM me your email off forum and I'll send you a copy.
Current Bag:- HQ Shadow, Spiderkites Zodarion, Flying Wings Soul, Old blue HQ Jive , 'PAW' modded HQ Maestro II, Delta Hawk,
 
User avatar
Craig
Site Admin and Supporter
Site Admin and Supporter
Posts: 5240
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Epsom Downs, near the red cross.

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:55 pm

SkyRags wrote:

Im also assuming that I need to learn stalls to get better at tricks anyways dont I?



Back in the day yes, because the kites were so big and pulled so hard you need to get the wind out of the sail to get the kite to trick, these days not really.
 
User avatar
SkyRags
Topic Author
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:32 am
Location: On Raumati Beach, New Zealand...preferably ALWAYS

Re: The Snap Stall

Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Craig wrote:
SkyRags wrote:

Im also assuming that I need to learn stalls to get better at tricks anyways dont I?



Back in the day yes, because the kites were so big and pulled so hard you need to get the wind out of the sail to get the kite to trick, these days not really.


Fascinating...
but from tricks Ive seen it would appear that the kite does stall somewhat - especially with axels and the like...of course Im a noob still so how exactly are tricks performed then - thats the main reason Im kiting at the moment
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
User avatar
Jason
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 2744
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:20 pm
Location: QLD

Re: The Snap Stall

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:15 am

I guess it all helps. There are kites now which make it possible to learn all the new tricks without having the basics down first. For a while there was a tendency to see fliers who wanted to buy a kite on Saturday and do a comete by Sunday, they could do jacobs ladders all day long but couldn't land or do ground recovery.
Jason.
Image
 
Keithgrif
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Location: near Towcester
Contact:

Re: The Snap Stall

Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:11 am

Wax on - wax off
:-)
Keith
STACK UK
National Director 2006-2012

ExGrads pairs, fourth in Europe 2011!!!
Airheads team, 10th in the world 2012
 
User avatar
MartinG
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:42 pm
Location: St Albans

Re: The Snap Stall

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:27 pm

Those of us starting out without the benefit of a coach tend to rely on the Dodd Gross Flight School DVD to try to understand tricks. In the video Dodd says "The axle is your first slack line trick. If you can snap stall you can axle. If you can't execute good snap stalls, don't move on to this lesson", so one can become a bit obsessed with trying to perfect it; replaying the video over and over again to see what the kite and hands are doing means the soundtrack works its way into your subconscious like a mantra! If only there were more than half a dozen people interested someone could make an updated video to reflect what can be done with modern kites - I'd buy "Craig's comete in a day" or the equivalent. Probably still wouldn't be able to do many tricks, mind you.
 
User avatar
Craig
Site Admin and Supporter
Site Admin and Supporter
Posts: 5240
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:46 pm
Location: Epsom Downs, near the red cross.

Re: The Snap Stall

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:58 pm

Took me longer than a day to get the Comete!

Kites have evolved a lot since the Dodd vids, and you no longer need the snap stall, watch any modern video you wont find one unless it's in a ballet routine. Tricks flow one to another more effortlessly nowadays.

However, I always found the spin axel easier to execute as the kite already had some momentum going into the trick.
 
User avatar
harveystubbs
Posts: 1207
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:01 pm

Re: The Snap Stall

Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Craig wrote:
Kites have evolved a lot since the Dodd vids, and you no longer need the snap stall ....


Thank goodness for that .... one less trick for me to do badly :cool:
Last edited by harveystubbs on Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.