Fractured Axel

I was determined not to post a question on here like "how do I do a half axle". I had a little coaching from Chris Goff and Allan Pothecary as well as watching all the available half axle videos.

Well after about 20 hours of trying. I've finally done half axles on both sides with a Benson Gemini UL.

I tried in the same wind with the a full size Fury SUL, but I just couldn't make it rotate.

I can understand the difficulty that the experts have in explaining how to do these tricks because it's not just about the actions its about the timing and the FEEL of the the kite at the time of and during execution. At least that's what I think after the last couple of weeks learning.

So I can feel on the Gemini UL when it's right and I can feel the setup and action that makes the rotation happen. However I cannot replicate this on the full size SUL Fury. It just doesn't seem to want to rotate. The bridle setup is the same as when I purchased it and there are no brass weights on the spine. (I can't remember if it had one or not).

My question for you all is around what to do about this. Should I be able to half axle the full size fury and will I need to? (Chris did it very very well with my standard Fury) I am learning some of the individual precision flying patterns "jump" "infinity" etc and in that type of flying half axles don't appear to be necessary. In trick flying they are seen as the gate way to other more complex tricks.

Should I stick to tricks on the Benson's and precision on the Fury.. ? That's what I'm thinking but I hate giving up. As my wife will testify since she hasn't see much of me these past two weeks.

Cheers,

Paul.

I found that I could do half axels on a Gemini with just one input for the whole rotation part, whereas my full size Fury (a standard, not a SUL) requires a second input with the other hand half way through the rotation to bring the kite from the belly down, nose away position to the final position.

What inputs are you using on your Gemini for the whole half axel?

Where is the kite going at the moment when you try? Nose-away? Doing nothing?

Have you tried a little set up move - pushing the top wing slightly before you pull back on that line?

Hi Andy, and Misterbleepy



I'm trying to follow the Mama74 method so I'm pushing the upper wing slightly before pulling it to get the rotation. At the same time I'm now giving slack to the lower wing.

It's hard to describe what happens on the Fury but lets say I'm in flight right to left, then pushing a bit with my right hand before snapping back and it seems to end with the nose pulling up and more often than not ends in a right hand wing wrap.

I'm sure its the same technique with the Gemini so perhaps the timing or kite position needs to be different.

Are you then pulling it on round with the left hand?

On a lot of these comp-style kites it's a two-pop method, one for the top wing, and then the other hand to pull the other wing to the top.

I don't think I am pulling on the left at all. I'll give that a go.

Just for my own mind, can you tell me whether I should at least be able to put in the right hand pop (on a right to left flight) and at least get it to travel to a nose away position.

If that's the case then I'll try repeating that until I can see it happening and then try to put in a left hand tug.

in the case of the fury will it half axle with the nose heading for 9 o clock (as in mama74 video) or does the nose need to be somewhere else?

On some SULs I've found that you need a good setup (little pop to the bottom / slack on the top right before popping the top) and then a little pop on what was the bottom in order to lift the inside wing back up into flying position.

My friends unweighted WW Nirvana, for example, likes it this way. The main difference I think it that for some lighter weight kites you need a better setup - the heavier kites need little (to none).

I feel that when you first start learning tricks, a half axel is a more difficult trick to learn than a full axel. This is because a half axel is done while the kite is still flying forwards (either from left to right or right to left). It is much easier to "get" the half axel when you are comfortable with the feel of the axel in the first place.

Have you been doing any axels at all? If so, feel free to ignore the rest of this

To perform an axel you first need to stall the kite, and you need to stall it with the nose pointed slightly away from the vertical (12 o'clock position). So if you are going to axel to the left by pulling on the right wing, the nose needs to be pointed to the left (say, 11 o'clock). Similarly, if you are going to axel to the right by popping the left wing, the nose needs to be pointed slightly to the right (say, 1 o'clock).

Even getting a correct stall can be difficult when you first start, but there is a "cheat's" method. When you fly your kite from one side of the wind window to the other, it eventually runs out of wind and will fall out of the sky. We don't let that occur, we usually turn the kite away from the edge before that happens. But if we fly the kite close to the side of the wind window and turn the kite upwards, we can get it to "hang" there almost motionless fairly easily. This is the "cheat" stall.

Choose which side you want to practice your axel. Let's just say you will pop with your right hand. So fly your kite from the centre of the wind window to the right hand side. Just before you get to the edge of the wind, turn the kite upwards and continue the turn until the nose of the kite points to 11 o'clock. Then pop the right hand and take a step forward. The kite should do a rudimentary axel.

To practice axels the other way round, just fly to the left side of the window and turn the kite until the nose points to 1 o'clock...

Make sure the nose of the kite is well past the 12 o'clock position. As you get more confident, you will find you can pop the outer wing later and later (11 o'clock, 10 o'clock, etc.) Once you get to the point where the kite nose is pointing to 9 o'clock (or 3 o'clock) you are effectively doing the same as a half axel.

Becoming familiar with the axel this way, allows you to throw it into other parts of the wind window much easier, because you are already familiar with the feel of what the kite is doing and needs to be doing

I hope this helps

PaulW wrote:

I tried in the same wind with the a full size Fury SUL, but I just couldn't make it rotate.

Isn't this more likely to be the source of the problem ? A big, light kite like this is going to need a slightly different technique as it simply hasn't go the mass to get the kite through the move with the Gem UL's "pop-pop-pop" approach.

SULs (and indoor kites) more usually respond to being guided and pulled through a move if you don't want them to simply run out of puff part way.

Mike.

Hi PaulW,
Mike hits the nail on the head. i flew a SUL Matrix a lot - and "pops" rarely work, think more "starting a lawnmower/outboard" motion-starting slowly and accelerating. At the elbow for large inputs, the wrist for small. Remember Inertia, Inertia, Inertia on a SUL ( and very little drag/acceleration in low wind) so imagine not lines but steel rods to your kite, you have to keep the pressure on.
For the half axel on the SUL Matrix just pushing the top wing drops the nose instead of rotating around the spine as you need. So pull bottom wing the same tiny amount. I used to rotate my body around my spine a little to get it, neatly setting up my limbs for "starting the outboard with one hard while pushing off from the jetty with the other" Uuummm I 've read this and it makes sense to me. Your experience may be different.
love'n'joy
lloydsan

I agree, the Fury SUL is a B*tch to get to half axel, you need to pull it out of the flat spot.

All makes sense. Just need more practice and, oh lots more practice.

back at work next week and rain due next few days

Thanks for the feedback guys!

The other thing to say, even The Bunnies take the tricks out of their routines when using the Fury SUL.

Thanks Keith that does help.

So if I'm applying my beginner logic to the kites I have and the flying that I should be learning.

I've got the Benson standard and UL Gemini's plus the Minigem. (Purchased from someone on this site) These, I should be learning tricks on in light to medium winds.

I have a SUL Fury and a standard Fury, for the SUL it seems it is really best for precision, although it can do tricks, much more work is required.

The Standard Fury will do tricks as well, I've seen them done, both on video and demonstrated by Chris G with my kite. What I would like advice on is whether to spend too much time on the Fury trying to do something which seems easier with other kites.

Should I just stick to precision with the Fury's for a while?

One of my old bugbears - learning "tricks" or "precision"!! Oh my blood pressure!!
You will learn control (and how to enjoy yourself). As I posted a while ago, flying in a straight line is a high level trick for some people on some kites. And Chris Goff can do precise comete precisely! You should really only learn what is easily possible, until you reach a really good level or you have no foundation. Saying that, it's easy to throw your arms around and look good with some kites (I use a Trancer). Stabs, and tip balances etc good to learn on SUL (slow and low power/inertia). Flat spins on standards (more inertia). Precision on weekends, as it takes a while to do reliably - if you only nail it a few times you'll have lost it the next time you go out. For your half axel, the really square square is a good figure to practice - variety of turns in different parts of the window. You'll probably overcook a corner and pull a half axel anyway! Or nailing the half axel will help your figure. It's all practising control and transferring your newly acquired skills.
This all sounds much more boring than it is, but the line between 'figure' and 'trick' is where you make it - until you compete which is a whole different skill.
love'n'joy
Lloyd