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rick sanchez
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revolution / freilein question.

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:43 pm

Hello,

I've just joined the forum.

I was given a present of a Freilein kite, which is the copy of the Revolution, but it didn't come with handles or lines.

i've seen some Exp lines for sale will they be suitable; are all all quad handles suitable, I've seen some Flexifoils for sale but they seem less curved than the Revolution's.

Is it worth putting a request in the wanted section for a set of Revolution lines and handles; does that sort of thing come up ever ?


Thanks or any advice in advance

Rick
 
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KaoS
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:34 am

Not all quad handles are the same - the ones for power kites aren't really suitable for Revolution style kites.

Most curved metal handles with foam grips are either direct copies of, or very close to, original Revolution handles. The most popular length is 13". Early Rev handles were 11" - not much use. It is possible to get 15" handles, but the vast majority of flyers use the 13" ones.

No harm in putting a request in the Wanted section - at least you won't die wondering :lol:
Kevin Sanders

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IanM
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:41 pm

You'll probably die waiting ...
 
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Exult
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:16 pm

Well just to get going, how about making a pair of handles? Possibly something temporarily from hard wood or an old (metal) ski pole, etc… Find some string for the leaders, make a series of knots for adjustments and figure out a way to attach the leaders. I don’t *expect* that the curvature of the handle is strictly necessary. However when it comes to framed quads I have almost exclusively been using (curved) rev-handles (because that was what came with the QLKs). Last September I participated in the Copenhagen/Dragør quad clinic. When looking on John Barresi’s handles they were notably less curved than my rev handles.

If this is your first quad that you are going to pilot, then there are more urgent things than having a pair of fancy handles. When starting out with QLKs, I got by the lawn-dart phase by kind of pretending that the brake lines were the left/right lines of DLKs. If you don’t have that reference and no previous kiting experience my first recommendation is to introduce slack in the lines if it is heading for the ground, never crash a powered kite (i.e. with tension in the lines) – let it safely fall like a leaf instead.

Do you have any long (Spectra/Dyneema) DLK lines that you can re-purpose as QLK lines? Two 30m lines should give you four 14.5m lines. Shorter lines would be difficult if you are starting out I think. It is possible to omit the sleeving on the kite side of the lines (this is even preferred by some) if you don’t have any extra sleeving material at home. My personal experience of sleeveless lines on the kite side is limited to my 10m 25kg lines - works. Be quite careful with the end result, so that all four lines have the same length.

Good Luck!
 
rick sanchez
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:37 pm

Hi KaoS,

Thanks for the advice.
i've got a better idea of what I am looking for now.

Rick
 
rick sanchez
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:40 pm

IanM wrote:
You'll probably die waiting ...

:)
 
rick sanchez
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:39 pm

Hi Exult,

 Thanks for taking the time to share that information.
i have no experience of these kites, so I missed some of the references.

I don't care about fancy and can usually make or bodge an item that I need.
I thought of making some handles from bent tubes but i was put off by the fact that the length of the short cords on the handle seem to be pretty crucial.


i assumed that if I don't get the cords on the handles exactly right then, i won't know if it's me being an idiot ( as a complete beginner) or the kite set up that's wrong.

Are the short cords all the same length; I thought from pictures that the brake cords were longer than the power cords ?



As, I mentioned earlier, I can buy some used revolution EXP lines ( do you know if these will be ok )

Any answers to to these questions would be much appreciated.

thanks 
Rick
 
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:03 am

You could put a number of evenly spaced knots on both the top and bottom cords (pigtails?) to allow you to 'trim' the kite for your own preferences and also wind conditions.
 
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Exult
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:49 pm

The below instruction/discussion assumes equal line length – all four of them.

The short (?) version or the getting started list:

Put your thumbs on top of the handles and grab them. Hold the handles in front of you and bend you elbows to roughly a square angle and slightly rotate your wrists to point a bit upwards. Trim your kite/line/handle setup so that you just can maintain a leading edge up hover (similar to a stalled dual line kite). Most commonly do this trimming by varying which knot that you attach the top lines larkheads to. If you are new to quads, from this reference position move the LE/top line closer to you/the handle by choosing a knot say perhaps 4cm closer to you to (in this hover case) increase the forward (up) drive.

Disregarding the handle shape (a much curved handle would make the lower leaders shorter than a less curved handle) and how you grip the handle (what angle you keep the handle), when piloting my Hadziki wing 1.5 REVs (a std normally shaped REV manufactured by Revolution) all lines and (handle side) larkheads are about the same distance from the from the kite.

A good starting length is 4 x 25m. Not shorter than 15m for the first flights. To get stiff enough lines and slippery enough to make it possible to control the kite with lines that are twisted after turning, you should use Spectra/Dyneema (Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMWPE)). Use a 40”kg” line strength (equals 39daN or 88”lb”) for most winds. In light wind you can use a 25kg line, though it is somewhat more prone to get caught on stuff on the ground.

Handle trimming discussion:

Returning to the handle leader(/cord) length I could say what I use for various conditions, but that really depends of the bridle of the kite in the general case. Say that the attachment point knot on the bridle on a certain type of kite of quad would be far from the sail surface, then naturally the whole top lines would need to be closer towards the handle. This could be realized with a shorter leader adjustment.

You can’t just assume that the trimming that works for one kite (and conditions) just fits for another kite and you can maintain the same trimming. I extend the top leaders (by adding a short pigtail in series) on my REV-handles to fly my (B-series) REVs in mid wind range and hard wind. Only in lighter winds the top leaders of my REV-handles are sufficient using the outermost or second outermost knot. It is the brake-heavy feeling of a flying sail with no trailing edge flutter that I’m after. Higher wind requires more brake, otherwise the kite tends to constantly move forward if you don’t constantly apply brake yourself. Trailing edge flutter is a signal to add more brake. A kite that won't take off is a signal to fly less brake heavy.

So regardless if you bought your handles or DIYed them, which knots on the leaders should you use? What should you look for when trimming the whole setup? I aim for the following: when pointing the top sides of the handles somewhat towards you, you should just be able to maintain a (standard leading edge upwards) hover. Do this test in the centre of the wind window a couple of metres above the ground. With a brake-heavy setting like this, forward drive of the kite is mainly performed by pulling on all four lines. This pull on the kite will actually deform the LE and sail in such a way that the kite will be “kicked” forward (resulting in a good control of the forward motion).

Now I don’t recommend this setting to the *fresh* beginner (though you early in you QLK career should strive to understand and use this sail-deforming action). Instead when you have found this kind of a “neutral” trim, you should move the larkheads one or two knots (possibly three) on the top leader towards the handle.

So now to the question what leader length should you use? If I would make a pair of *curved* 13inch-like handles myself I’d make the top leaders about 24cm long and the bottom leaders perhaps 6cm. However if the handle would have been just a straight bar (for ease of manufacturing perhaps) the bottom leaders instead would need to be about as long as the top leaders (estimated – not actually tried). I’d use about 2cm knot distance on the top leaders. The bottom leaders should have the knots closer, since the function is to, if necessary, make small adjustments to trim the setup so that the kite doesn’t have any left/right (non political :-) ) tendencies. When holding the handles when piloting my REVs, my Spiderkites Smithi Pro or my Anders Matson A-Quad Hard Wind Vent, I hold the top of the rubber grip while placing my thumbs on the top of the handles. However for the Smithi Pro and the A-Quad I first need to make them more brake heavy by using a bottom (trailing) side bridle attachment point that is closer to the sail. After this, the trimming using my REV handles will function as normal.
 
rick sanchez
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:55 pm

Hi Exult,

Wow, thank you for taking the time to explain all of that.

This will get me on my way.

Kind Regards 
Rick
 
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Re: revolution / freilein question.

Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:55 pm

Where are you Rick? Nothing better than flying with someone that knows what they are doing.
Keith
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National Director 2006-2012

ExGrads pairs, fourth in Europe 2011!!!
Airheads team, 10th in the world 2012