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Zippy8
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:57 am

I think that the unstructured format is more attractive to the previously uncompetitive flyer. If you have to sit down and construct a routine to tick the boxes on the score sheet, rather than just blatt around for 30seconds, isn't that a disincentive ?

BTW arrange a club outing to the Berck festival next year. Just over the water and mucho fun.

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Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:38 am

Just read the last page or two of the GWTW thread. Mike, don't you sleep or is it a 24hr shift :cry:
Good that the thread sorted it self out. Some good banter :cool:
Well done Craig for using my suggestion to post your USA statement :lol: :lol: :lol: :P
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Craig
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:37 am

Zippy8 wrote:
I think that the unstructured format is more attractive to the previously uncompetitive flyer. If you have to sit down and construct a routine to tick the boxes on the score sheet, rather than just blatt around for 30seconds, isn't that a disincentive ?

I think your probably right.(speaking as someone who doesn't compete).

jrharrold wrote:
Well done Craig for using my suggestion to post your USA statement


Your welcome :onfire:
 
Andy S
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:38 am

Perhaps I need to read it again, but the Trick Party format strikes me as being pretty unstructured isn't it? You have four compulsories, and one surprise compulsory, and the rest is just you banging strings for your allotted time. Sure you *can* prepare a routine if you want, but most of us could enter at some level and pull off a half-decent score, I'd imagine... ;)
 
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mobius
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:50 am

Zippy8 wrote:
BTW you do know that I'm a died-in-the-wool, old school competition judge ? I was even Chief Judge at the last World Champs. for Teams so, in many people's eyes, I am The Enemy :evil:


Not only were you The Enemy, but you also eat our mascot! :shocked: A judge that takes no prisoners for sure.

We have yet to find a replacement bunny. :cry:
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Zippy8
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:40 pm

h_i_r_0 wrote:
Perhaps I need to read it again, but the Trick Party format strikes me as being pretty unstructured isn't it?


Waaaay too organised for some though :? The It's a Trick Out rules make for a very open canvas to work with. You can devise and practice a routine or just turn up and mellow out.

Not a 24 hour shift, just a 12 hour nightshift in Norway. Feels very similar :)

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Martin
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:02 pm

if the its a trick out format is the same as the one that was run at stokes bay for the eurocup a couple of years ago then you couldnt really devise a routine as you get 3x30 seconds to interpret a piece of music that the judges chose at random... it could be anything.... cannot make that many contingencies, i feel that this is true freestyle.

I can see where STACK are going with the uk tricksparty format, but they are trying to give a formal format to a very informal flying style.

I would prefer the "blind shoot out" format, no compulsaries, that way you fly the way you like with what you like and you are judged on your skill and how effectively you interpreted the music and with what degree of skill the tricks were executed. This levels the playing field as people who are into the newer french flippy, rolly stuff can do that and people who are more old skool and into spin based tricks can do that, the compulsary trick thing can severely effect the outcome when you start to consider the differences in performan in different areas of various kites

but hell what do i know.....
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:21 pm

it's not our fault if you don't have a kite that's capable of all the tricks

(says the proud owner of a new purple Nirvana - it's in the post... 8) :lol: :D )

SOrry - couldn't resist.

I really reckon you should go for the trick out comp. Martin...
 
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Martin
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:48 pm

my Gem will do all a nirvana will it is just that it takes more SKILL to achive some of it.... the nirvana just hands some stuff to u on a plate... it has been engineered to do flippy french stuff ....where is the SKILL in that

I just think that the blind trickout levels the playing field to all comers

Obviously u still keep the master, int and novice classes but apart from that it is a free for all
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:52 pm

Martin wrote:
the nirvana just hands some stuff to u on a plate... it has been engineered to do ... stuff ....where is the SKILL in that


:lol: :lol: :lol: THe purists MUST have said that about the Gem...

You're a funny man Martin. Did you miss a ;) off the end of that sentence??

Are we entering next year then? Have you had a change of heart?
 
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Martin
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:02 pm

See how good the winter is to me... i need to learn a few tricks before i start to compete
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Zippy8
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:02 pm

Martin wrote:
you couldnt really devise a routine as you get 3x30 seconds to interpret a piece of music that the judges chose at random


The choreography aspect was always the icing on the cake, not the sticky sponge. :-)

I can see where STACK are going with the uk tricksparty format, but they are trying to give a formal format to a very informal flying style.


Deja vu all over again. This is precisely the argument that ABW had when making any changes to his format, including line boundaries. I think that the original format has a far wider appeal.

Mike.
 
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mobius
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Fri Oct 03, 2003 5:48 pm

Martin wrote:
if the its a trick out format is the same as the one that was run at stokes bay for the eurocup a couple of years ago then you couldnt really devise a routine as you get 3x30 seconds to interpret a piece of music that the judges chose at random... it could be anything.... cannot make that many contingencies, i feel that this is true freestyle..


As far as I can tell, there are now four 'types' of trick competition

"It's a trickout" (IATO) is ABW original 3x30 seconds each.

"Freestyle" (FF) format is Andy Phelps' idea of a freestyle competition and was trialled during this year's STACK competitions.
This is bascially the same as IATO but you have to perform key tricks and end up with a numerical score. Points are awarded depending upon whether or not you achive any of the required tricks (and some simple precision shapes) and also how well they are executed.

"Tricks Party" (TP) is the French offering and from what I can tell is similar to diving competitions whereby the flyer exlects beforehand to perform specific tricks -- each gaining points for difficulty and execution.

"UK Tricks Party" (UKTP) is I think a clone of the French version, changed a bit to remove tricks that are as yet impossible to perform on anything other than a Nirvana. Again I believe Andy Phelps is the driving force behind this.

I have to say that IATO is by far the most enjoyable in my opinion and most importantly is the simplest.

All thoughts of flying a 'routine' go out the window when you watch your fellow competitor nail a difficult combo and raise the bar.

My only critisism of IATO is that it tends to drag on and isn't always as spectator friendly as what it could be.

Martin wrote:
I can see where STACK are going with the uk tricksparty format, but they are trying to give a formal format to a very informal flying style.


The thing about IATO is that there is no quantifier as to 'how much did I lose or win by'... I think that this is what people are trying to fix by creating ways of scoring tricks. I don't think that this will succeed, but it's exciting to see all these ideas springing up.
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