Fractured Axel

OK, then. Here I am again.

So, the issue was:
I have an STD (the Soul) a UL (the Talon)
and now it's the time for an SUL, or perhaps an indoor but I really don't have an indoor facility at this point. So I think better stick to an SUL.

Now, Santa does not have a huge budget, so I would not want to go over 200€
But most of the SUL's I've seen are much more expensive than their STD and UL siblings...
For example: Talon SUL, LO-JJF SUL,

I have seen the Prism 4D has quite a low price...
Then I've heard the Shadow is quite SUL-ish, as well as the Zephyr, and both are good in price...

Are these "SUL's" worth it?
Or should I really break the moneybox and add some € to get to another level of kites?

Thanks.

if you going to build something
build your own SUL, or try my one http://pinkflood.uphero.com/ if you like to take risk.
you will fit in 150 euros and there still will be some leftovers for next build.
there is also sixth sense U.L
invictus zero from more experienced builders
http://stuntkitepalermo.blogspot.ie/201 ... ictus.html

S.U.L will be best on Castelldefels beach i bet .

Flying SUL's is different to flying other kites, even UL's. It's more about gently guiding the kite to do what you want rather than pop and pull. Not easy to fly well, but worth it when you get the technique.

As you have a Talon already the best thing would be to try and pursuade Santa that you've been really good this year and go for the SUL - I've heard lots of good things about it and you can't really go wrong ( and you get to play with the colouriser again!)

If you are on a budget the Shadow is a very good kite for the money. It's sold as a UL but it will fly right down to 2mph just like the Talon - maybe a little less on a good day. Most of the frame is plain carbon tube so it's cheap to repair and it's pretty tough , in 3 years I've cracked (not broken) 1 LLE and I use it quite a bit. The downside is that some people find it a bit 'twitchy' - it can tend to oversteer. 90% of this can be fixed with a modified bridle - if you got one and found it a problem I can send you the details for the new bridle or, if you don't fancy tying your own I can send you a bridle. The other thing is that while the Shadow is pretty tricky for a SUL, it isn't as tricky as the Talon. The main thing it can be hard to do is Yoyo's, most other tricks are there.

It depends on what sort of wind you get, if you get a lot of very low wind days then a SUL is well worth getting. Indoor/no wind kites are another thing again - most indoor kites don't fly well outdoor even in virtually zero wind.

As an alternative suggestion - as you also fly single line kites - have you thought about the Flying Wings Laima? Not a trick kite, but they look beautiful in flight and they will fly indoors.

I'll chuck in another curveball. What about the Prism Zero-G?

some consider the Prism Zephyr to be the best kite in the currant Prism line up but dont get confused. Whilst it will fly in fairly low winds it is not a UL or SUL. If you want any advise before buying a Prism kite check out the Prism Forum. Also remember when your talking SUL/indoor kite you are entering a whole new arena of flying style that many find frustrating ,an area that I have yet to venture into.

A rank beginner's perspective: I don't know about many of the kites mentioned here, but I have recently bought two Kitehouse SINs, a standard (new) and UL (2nd hand but from a much more accomplished pilot so I know it can do the business in the right hands). The std flies down to about 4 mph (according to the Dunstable weather centre), and the UL stayed airborne last weekend with 2-3 mph and some strolling about. My impression is that anything floatier than an UL is a whole different ballgame - you basically make your own breeze so it's all about moving around and I don't know about you, but I have enough trouble when the wind is provided! My inclination is to try to walk before I run (literally!).

I would have thought that Barcelona gets reasonable breezes most of the time? Sea breezes in the summer afternoons for sure, and even in winter something?? My assumptions may be completely wrong, of course! It's a great hobby and I fully understand your enthusiasm, but as a relative beginner do you really need a 0-3 mph kite? I'm a total beginner and can barely fly the ones I have!

Before anyone wades in, I am happy to admit to officially being The Worst Kite Flyer In The World (but still having fun).

Hmmmm...

Again lots of points to think about.
Let me see.

First of all thanks so much for all your comments. They are all really helpful.

I think that at this point I will not buy a single line SUL or glider.
Don't get me wrong I do like them very much (well, more the Laima than the Zero-G) but I'm now really into being able to do Lazy Susans, 540s, fades, cascades and the like.
I will definitely not be trying yoyo's and the like until I get the spinning tricks a little better and more consistent.
So this is why I thought an SUL would be good.

I like the floating flying of SULs and Indoor kites and I think my type of flying goes along with them. But Steve's and Hawkerhunter's warnings worry me a little in the sense that they are really a different world to STDs and ULs...

Hawkerhunter, you say you still have to venture in this area but you have a 3D... Isn't this an Indoor/SUL?
So wouldn't a 4D be a good choice to diversify my kite range?
It is not too expensive and I will be well within budget and even have some left for other gadgets...

Pink your offer is nice, I like that kite. However, as I see it the instructions are not even minimal... I don't think I would dare go for a first build with such little information.

MartinG, you are probably right in part but, I think I'm starting to get the idea of what an SUL or Indoor kite is and I think I do want to get into that ball game. I think it can be nice.
Wind here in my land is very irregular. Summer is a "forget it" for flying in Barcelona beaches or other beaches north or south: too full and too hot. People are at the beach from dawn till sunset. So no possibilities. Moreover it is forbidden to fly kite at the beach in Summer season (which actually includes a bit of Spring and a bit of Autumn).
Beaches in Autumn, Winter and Spring have very irregular wind. Today for example everything was really quiet. Inland Catalonia is a very dense and rugged country. So very little large spaces to fly in and the ruggedness makes wind very unstable and gusty. Parks tend to be filled with trees, no large lawns available.
So I do think I need the whole range of kites.

So... still thinking... but the more I think of it the more I see perhaps the 4D would be a nice choice...

More comments please.
Thanks!

Save up and buy a proper full size SUL, you will regret it if you don't.

The first 2 will also fly indoors easily, whereas the others are outdoor SUL's.

Inner Space
Level One Amazing
TNT SUL
Cosmic Ghost
Talon SUL

There are others.............

When I got my 3D I had no idea how different it was to fly. I found it difficult to work with as I had only limited flying skills. It doesnt get used now as I find this indoor, no wind flying is not what I want to do. Its a shame you couldnt try one out becasue you would then see how different they are to use. The 4D is apparantly better than the 3D was but after my 3D experience I couldnt be bothered to get one. This is just my opinion of course.

Craig wrote:

Save up and buy a proper full size SUL, you will regret it if you don't.

The first 2 will also fly indoors easily, whereas the others are outdoor SUL's.

Inner Space
Level One Amazing
TNT SUL
Cosmic Ghost
Talon SUL

There are others.............

Wow Craig.
That sound really harsh.
It sounds like a "dead or alive" kind of sentence...

And for example why the Amazing and not the JJF SUL?

With most of those kites I will have to wait until Christmas 2013 if I want to save sufficient money (except for the TalonSUL or the InnerSpace)

I think I have a long life in front of me. If I get a kite that is now simple but can allow me to have fun, I can sell it in the future or just save some more and buy a more serious one in a couple of years...

But thanks anyway!

Hawkerhunter wrote:

When I got my 3D I had no idea how different it was to fly. I found it difficult to work with as I had only limited flying skills. It doesnt get used now as I find this indoor, no wind flying is not what I want to do. Its a shame you couldnt try one out becasue you would then see how different they are to use. The 4D is apparantly better than the 3D was but after my 3D experience I couldnt be bothered to get one. This is just my opinion of course.

Yes, I have been reading a lot about this.
The 3D seems like was indeed a very twitchy and weak kite in many senses.
Whereas everything I've read about the 4D from people that have one is that they are really happy. Even people who expected not to like it were really impressed...

I'll keep thinking...
and reading

Ara Ararauna wrote:

That sound really harsh.
It sounds like a "dead or alive" kind of sentence...

Maybe, but there's a reason good kites cost big money!

There are some tricks that are easier to do and learn on an ultralight than a standard - I did my first 540's and slots on my Shadow and was able to transfer that to my other kites. I can't really think of any tricks that are easier on a SUL - modern Sul's will do most tricks, but they often need a change of technique which doesn't always transfer to other kites. The kites you have will cover you from 3-4mph with the Talon UL to high teens with the Soul. You would probably be better really learning your tricks on these two kites, especially the UL, so that when you move onto a SUL you really know the moves and you will find it easier to transfer the skills you learn on these two kites to the SUL than the other way around. In the meantime save up that bit extra for Talon SUL - it's a top quality kite and I'm sure you won't regret it. Better to buy a really good kite once than spend more money on two or three 'OK' kites....I know, I've done it!

The 4D might fly a little lower than your UL, but it isn't the trickiest kite and it's going to cost £80 you can put towards the SUL. Learn how to really get the best from the UL then get a SUL.

The HQ Shadow is a very good, moderately priced, trick capable SUL. The only trick it doesn't easily do is roll up/yoyo. It back spins f-o-r-e-v-e-r.

The Prism 4D is very small, very light, and gives a totally different flying experience to larger kites. It is a good kite for zero to light winds IF you don't have another kite to use.

IF AT ALL POSSIBLE... try before you buy. I have bought and sold around a dozen SULs over the past 4 years. Each has been not quite what I'm looking for. But the Shadow has been very close. (If only it rolled up!!)

The ultimate sul is the Veyron SUL, in my opinion. Very low wind range and also very tricky! Great kite, really.
Yes, over €300, but very much worth the money.

Save some money and buy one.
Totally different than a prism 3/4D, but everything is better.


I've flown lots of sul's, but i like the Veyron the most.