Fractured Axel

Zippy8 · Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:19 am

OK VFers.... what does constitute too much out of frame for a video to be excluded from entry ? It's been the main thing that has caused problems for the two rounds I've run and I think it could be better worded on the rules page, especially for newcomers.

Do we want a hard and fast rule or a you-know-it-when-you-see-it kinda deal ?

Mike.

Sub · Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:32 am

The kite must fly within the boundary of the visible area of the video at all times for the entry to be considered valid.

Zippy8 · Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:55 am

So one indiscretion and it's off to the bin with that video ? :-k

On the harsh side of what I was thinking TBH but let's see where this goes.

Mike.

tpatters · Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:16 am

I like a happy medium - allow a single out of frame (where the kite is completely off the screen) that can last for no more than 5 seconds. Partial off-screens (where some portion of the kite is always visible) are fine.

I understand that part of the issue with off-screens is that it may allow someone to edit down and include non-contiguous cuts without being detected. If it were not for this concern, I would say to simply accept all entries meeting all the other requirements.

Zippy8 · Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:36 am

And now we've swung to completely the opposite extreme :-D

Five seconds is a long time to be off screen. Yes, there was the issue of "has this been edited ?" with off screen moments (look at what happened in VF1) but also doesn't there has to be some standard for entry if for nothing else to make it easier to score ?

Mike.

adicakes · Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:06 am

Zippy8 wrote:
. Yes, there was the issue of "has this been edited ?" with off screen moments (look at what happened in VF1)

Since it was before I picked up a kite (and my search skills are suckin'), what happened?

Zippy8 · Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:23 am

adicakes wrote:
what happened?

Explanation here.

Mike.

ObijuanKenobe · Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:22 am

First off, an absolutely 'no leaving the frame' rule will definitely have a detrimental and frustrating effect on VF for me.

I have a hard enough time getting footage, much less perfect cuts.

I think this was and is best left for the judges. If you find yourself wondering, "Where is this bloody kite?" you should score it appropriately. If it's obvious where the kite 'is' when it leaves the frames and returns, why does it really matter?

The point is a cyber-contest that's straight forward and fun...we're there already.

obi

jaydub · Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:56 am

Zippy8 wrote:
adicakes wrote:
what happened?

Explanation here.

Mike.

Oooooh handbags! :lol:

If that's what VF1 was like, it's a minor miracle it's made it to VF11.

Hats off to Davey for keeping the concept going and of course to Mike for adding fresh impetus in his unique manner.

RoyReed · Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:54 am

I think an out-of-frame rule is needed, but should be kept loose. I agree with Obi - if you're thinking 'where's the kite gone' it's been out of frame too long and should be marked accordingly.

If the consensus is for a written rule, then it needs to be exact. Out of frame for more than 2.5 seconds (62 frames PAL or 75 frames NTSC) is a DQ.

Infinitive · Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:29 am

Sub wrote:
The kite must fly within the boundary of the visible area of the video at all times for the entry to be considered valid.

Then all people who video with a tripod are at a disadvantage.

If the video is a blag to enter the prize draw, or just a waste of time, Mike or Davey DQs them. If the flyer goes out of frame, they inevitably get marked down, consciously or not, by the peer judging.

If anyone is sad enough to edit their entry to win kudos or standing points, let them do that and live through knowing they are a fake who can only win by cheating. I shrug my shoulders in their general direction.

My opinion is that we don't need to change the rules. My opinion is amenable to change.

(Five years ago) randyg wrote:
If the underlying theme of this comp is ever anything more than FUN, then you might as well end it right now.

Kamikaze · Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:37 pm

I would scrap the out of frame rule all together so what is judged is the skill of the flyer and not that of the camera man. In the past I have filmed VF entries off a tripod and with this new rule that is now not practical so not only have I got to sort out my flying but also someone to film me flying.

David

Bakardi · Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:57 pm

'Out of frames' should not be disqualified if upto 3secs.

If there are 'OOFs' upto 3 sec scoring should reflect that.
This is were I think the guidance should be, how to score a video with 'OOFs'.

One suggestion could be a point off per 'OOF'

Mike

Kamikaze · Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:49 pm

I agree that OOFs should be penalised by a reduction in score may be in the same way an unintentional landing is penalised, but it should be up to the flyer to decide if they still want to submit that video and not have it excluded form the competition. After all I do not believe that anyone has been using OOFs to edit there video's.

David

Will S · Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:15 pm

I agree with what Obi wrote... This should be about fun, not legalities.

Fractured Axel

Out of bounds

Out of bounds