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Adrien
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Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:29 pm

Well OB, sorry it seems to be an excess of enthousiasm from the winner of a VIRTUAL contest :P Thank you bredda for keepin' my feets on the ground :wink:

But, by the way, idea of naming an original combination is not so curious when you look at Richard's or André's work:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLleW0BNNnI

Notice that I consider that my level is still (and probably shall ever be) light years away from these wonderful pioneers...

But I want to believe that there are still new stuffes to discover, and looking for exotic combinations is an exciting quest :D
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:17 pm

What I see in your above posted videos are moves that no one else has ever filmed, perhaps even after these original examples.

I have never seen anyone else exit from a yo-yo into a crazy copter (much less from a yo-backspin, into a yo-yo, into a crazy copter!). I have never seen anyone else show a kite continuing from a yo-yo exit into a yo-fade. And even then, Andre names his trick as an entry into the yo-fade...rather than calling it the 'dragon' or some such. I would love to see Andre do that trick on a Nirvana!

What I saw in your videos were combinations of moves that have been seen before (on the Nirvana, Cosmic, and Fury 85 at least)...even in the context of VF. Thus, not entirely original combinations, even if done as a proper cascade of repeating alternate sides, right? But even if you are going to name the cascaded sequence, why the Sparrow?? How about half-axel taz cascade?

Maybe that difference is more subtle than I think? But for me, putting a name out there suggests claiming something to be original. Look what I found! And I am sorry, but I feel the need to reiterate that you can find this combination elsewhere, from even years ago.

If it was wrong of me to point out that combining the comete, or even easier, the half axel cascade, with other moves is far from novel, I apologize. If this were not a VF thread, I have the feeling that many more folks would be on my side regarding the claiming of this combination(s) as original.

Bottom line...has it been done before or not? Since it has, why name it? Why not just take pride in the fact that a taz exit from a half axel cascade is hard...and you can do it!?

Carry on,
obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
 
Adrien
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Location: Champigné, Fr

Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:15 pm

Hi OB, glad to talk with you again... Well to begin I'd like to tell you that I'm not sure to get what you exactly mean (my english level is... french :lol: ) but I do my best to understand...

Several things.

First I think you didn't understand that the TALC and TS D.D. are actual names of the combinations you watched, and much french kite fliers see as a challenge trying to perform them.

About the "ComTaZ" it was to me an original way to launch a Taz WHILE a comete ( I already saw several pilots performing "comete to Taz", but the comete was stopped and the taz launched to the opposite direction...). This is really a combo that got out from my head, but an other trick-flyer may already performed and developped it it, all my aplogizes to him if so! :wink:
...
The "Sparrow" cascade, is not exactly a "half-axel taz cascade", it 's more a combination of Mutexes and Tazes... So you would name it "Mutex to Taz cascade"? Sparrow cascade was shorter to me :-D By the way, notice that Papillon (Butterfly...) was the name given by André to his "BS to mutex" combination... Defnitely not so curious :P

By watching the Level 7 video and thinking to your posts, I realized a stuff about JL trick; this massive combination at that time ( turtle to half lazy to fade to half BS to turtle and so on) was in fact already performed by Andy with his level 7 (much slowly, but it's actually the same combo) :-k The kite released a few years before Mat discovered this trick, and that's not a problem for anyone... :arrow:

To conclude I would just say that who cares about the name of a combination, what matters is to... FLY YOUR WAY :lol:

P.S. : huge respect to Chris for donating his new jewel, and more than anything opening us new fields in the sky =D>
 
Adrien
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Location: Champigné, Fr

Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:44 pm

Come on den guyz, what do you participants think? Also wanted to point the fact that it's possible to win a VF... while doing a few straight lines :wink:
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:59 pm

Well, certainly I understood that they named their respective moves in the videos you posted.

The reason I feel they are legit in doing so is because they are almost certainly firsts...first on film...first pilot to 'do it' on film.

I am suggesting that because you are far from the first to combine the cascade with a taz, you shouldn't bother 'claiming' the trick sequence.

If it's a combination of mutexes and taz machines...then it has a name already, right?

As far as straight lines go, I am not sure what your point is?

I am not arguing for the sake of it, although it might seem that way.

I just feel it is presumptuous to 'name' a trick unless there is really something original and new about it...rather than just another 'new' combination or sequence that doesn't flow in a particularly special way (like the JL does).

I just don't think this Sparrow thing crosses into uncharted territory the way either Debray's TALC or Andre's new yo-fade entry does.

obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
 
Adrien
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Location: Champigné, Fr

Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:39 pm

Dear obijuanito... I ignore the game you're playin', but I got a excellent new fi ya... YOU WON! You're obviously absolutely right, and your reasoning is irreprochable... But let me tell you that I'm leaving this silly game right now. Absolutely don't want to pollute no more a such important discussion about the nice contest that VF is... :arrow:

For me discussing on forums is not (your) star war... Just read again your replies, I couldn't find any "hello", "hi" or such cordial stuffes that facilitate human comprehesion. :? Didn't find any emoticone that wculd have moderate your speech... you serious? :?:

THANK YOU for this warm welcome on F.A. ...

I don't doubt that other forumers are less cynical and hope to have nice chats in the future. This forum seems nice to me :D

With love,

Adrien
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:26 pm

Warm welcome? :D Who wasn't warm? :?: I didn't say you were evil, or that your flying was poor, did I? :roll: Sorry if I find smiley faces silly. :(

Maybe I was a little rough if only because your 4th post ever on FA is to triumphantly claim YOUR two new moves to the world. :roll:

I think you flew a fabulous round of VF, and I know you are a much better flier than I. But I have been around long enough to know that naming tricks is a pretty self-serving project.

Let others point out your greatness. Don't highlight it for us in case we missed it.

Regarding your intellectual property rights to those 'new tricks' you have invented, your precedence is that Richard and Andre have named tricks, so you can too?

Great. When you do something new, get back to us.

:idea: Follow the motto of VF and JUST FLY YOUR WAY.
:idea: Forget trademarking and claiming combos as it's presumptuous. No one is listening but me.

obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
 
Adrien
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: Champigné, Fr

Re: Round 21 Videos and discussion.

Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:13 pm

:oops:

Well let us chill down the play...

I definitely understand your noble intention to "keep my feets on the ground" (or so? you see what I mean? french based expression) as said in my first reply... Be sure, I never forget that even in the "hardest session on latest released machine performing heaviest combos",what I am actually doing is nothing more than (vainly?) agitating a piece of sail in the sky...

Just feeled you went a bit strong (as I obviously did in my previous reply...) to perserve showing that I "claimed" (in the universaly world wide watched forum 8) any discovery... or that I was "trademarking" anything...

I was only curious of why this combination could have lead me to victory (the rest of flight after the COMETE TO TAZ cascade is quite basic in my entry...).

I finally take your advices as a boost to keep on flying more and more, and to try to get a bit more creative... so I think I can thank you for real this time :wink:

No hard feelings Obijuan, I wish you the best of what flying kites can bring to you... May you fly in peace!

Respect to all winDancerz...

Adrien