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Ca Ike
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Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:33 am

What are the opinions on artistic content of an entry? For the most part I don't look at choice of flying site as part of it but I have seen it mentioned. Main reason is the fact that in some areas flying sites are very limited and you don't have much of a choice as to whats in the background. I looked at how many different aspects of flying (IE figures. flip tricks, rotational tricks, stalls) were used and how well it flowed together. I didn't add the music in either since pretty much all the entries I have watched had the music added after the actual flying and you can tell for the most part that the routine wasn't tied to any particular part of the music track. I found some technical judging tutorials on a few of the tricks so I've gotten a good idea on that side of things however the artistic side lends itself to more subjectivity.
 
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kareloh
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Re: Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:19 pm

Scoring should be based on tech and flow.
Paying a little attention to location, music etc just makes it a lot more fun and judge the entry's IMHO.
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Re: Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:46 pm

I think to keep all things equal and keep VF exclusively about the flying, Kareloh is right.

You could always suggest that a 'best overall video' be a category separate from the actual kiting comp. That seems doable, if only as a way to acknowledge the prettiest one.

obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
 
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Lex B
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Re: Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Even without music, and a concrete dessert for location; THE FLYING counts IMO [no H here ;-) ]
remember: amateurs built the ark ..
professionals built the Titanic.

PLEASE......NO TAILS ....
 
tpatters
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Re: Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:44 pm

Judging can be VERY tough.

I usually just list them in order - from 1 to n for both tech and artistic content, then normalize the scores so that the first place gets 10, the last 0, and others the correct %. In other words, its graded somewhat on a curve.

As I understand it, the scores are yours, so just be as fair as you can given what you are trying to do. Personally, I don't mind giving some points for nice music or scenery - it's all part of the entry. I generally rank items higher for artistry if the routine looks well put together, is intentional, and flows well. Obviously, its hard to look very artistic if the technique is bad, so they are somewhat related.

Anyhow, this is a good point of discussion - I would like to hear how others go about rating the entrys.

-Tom
 
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Sub
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Re: Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:33 pm

I start by putting all the entries in three groups - beginners, experts, and everyone else.
Then within each group top middle low
Then a final divide by focussing on the details

If the music is not to my taste I turn it off to avoid distraction.

Style is artistic. Well executed combos with style get high marks in my judging.
 
Ca Ike
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Re: Artistic content?

Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:46 pm

Thanks for the replies so far. THe technical part is not that hard to judge IF you know what tricks you are looking at. I actually did a lot of searching for tutorials to make sure I could recognize the tricks I was seeing and I found a few tutorials (from comp judges/fellow flyers) on how to rate the technical aspect of the tricks that helped a lot. From watching team comps at some of the festivals I can see where the music and how well the routine fits the song comes into play for artistic points, but in this comp you can't really include that since pretty much every entry I have looked at in this and past comps have the music added later. THere was some comments on how artistic Alex B's entry was with the factory in the back ground, the sun angle and the snow falling which did make for some unique ambiance, however those of us that don't have access to picturesque sites are at a distinct disadvantage if thats is added to the criteria. From talking to a few kite teams it seems the biggest aspect to the artistic side other than the music is the variety of flying and the overall flow of the routine through tricks and transitions. The latter part of that is what I use but its still quite subjective. For example, A JL with a flic-flac or another trick mixed into it gets higher artistic points than a standard JL if well executed.
 
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Will S
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Re: Artistic content?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:52 am

The way I've judged past rounds:
technical = difficulty level, sharpness of execution
Whatever the other one is = the flow of the routine - whether it leads smoothly from one trick to the next. Crashes and other breaks in continuity take a big hit from me here.

To me, someone making a mistake in a trick such that continuity is broken may lose more from that than someone who crashes and gets right back on their feet. I personally don't really care for specific definitions for tricks as that leads to boxifying kiteing. Freestyling is good, just doing whatever flows nicely. Even if that's only 2 rotations of a comete, a jacob's ladder that doesn't alternate correctly, whatever. It's all good. That's what VF is all about.
 
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jaydub
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Re: Artistic content?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:22 am

Will S wrote:
The way I've judged past rounds:
technical = difficulty level, sharpness of execution
Whatever the other one is = the flow of the routine - whether it leads smoothly from one trick to the next. Crashes and other breaks in continuity take a big hit from me here.

To me, someone making a mistake in a trick such that continuity is broken may lose more from that than someone who crashes and gets right back on their feet. I personally don't really care for specific definitions for tricks as that leads to boxifying kiteing. Freestyling is good, just doing whatever flows nicely. Even if that's only 2 rotations of a comete, a jacob's ladder that doesn't alternate correctly, whatever. It's all good. That's what VF is all about.

That seems to a very pragmatic and sensible approach to the Style / Artistic score. I would like to think that a significant part of my scoring supports this approach, but your description will definitely give me a greater focus for scoring future rounds. Thanks, Will.
 
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Zippy8
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Re: Artistic content?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:03 am

If I may just make one small point....

with a sufficiently large group of people scoring, such as with VF17, then each individual score has a small effect. If one person scores shall we say unconventionally because they took into account the landscape, the music, the colour of the kite, etc. that some might consider irrelevant, it probably won't make that much difference.

In other words, it all comes out in the wash. Do your best, score it as you see it and no-one can call you wrong. That's all that can be asked.

Mike.
 
Ca Ike
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Re: Artistic content?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:13 am

Well put WIll. I kind of agree in that a good recovery from a mistake can have some style to it and before most of the flippy tricks were around an LE drag(or other controlled crash)-cartwheel-take off AKA ground roll/summersault was considered a good trick combo. One of my favorite stylish recoveries is an axel-fade where you miss the fade pop end up in a nose dive that you turn into a tip stab, tip landing or if your high enough can flare for a 540 or flic flac and yes I've had a lot of practice with this recovery :P
 
Ca Ike
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Re: Artistic content?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:36 am

Zippy8 wrote:
If I may just may one small point....

with a sufficiently large group of people scoring, such as with VF17, then each individual score has a small effect. If one person scores shall we say unconventionally because they took into account the landscape, the music, the colour of the kite, etc. that some might consider irrelevant, it probably won't make that much difference.

In other words, it all comes out in the wash. Do your best, score it as you see it and no-one can call you wrong. That's all that can be asked.

Mike.

True enough Mike. Still nice to get other opinions though.
 
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ghfisanotti
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Re: Artistic content?

Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:25 pm

From an strictly "artistic content" perspective, which VF17 videos do you think are the best?

In my opinion, Davide Equizzi's video is the winner, very good image quality, great location, nice routine, beautiful music, great editing with a very nice intro, the waves in the beach during the credits, and the closing phrase: "Vola solo chi osa farlo.", simply beautiful. My congratulations to Davide for this great video. I would just like some information on the beautiful soundtrack, who is that singer?

The second would be Alex Belov's video with that great bucolic background, the strange lighting of the cloudy sky, the snowfall, the nice music, all framing Alex's excellent performance.
 
Ca Ike
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Re: Artistic content?

Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:46 pm

ghfisanotti wrote:
From an strictly "artistic content" perspective, which VF17 videos do you think are the best?

In my opinion, Davide Equizzi's video is the winner, very good image quality, great location, nice routine, beautiful music, great editing with a very nice intro, the waves in the beach during the credits, and the closing phrase: "Vola solo chi osa farlo.", simply beautiful. My congratulations to Davide for this great video. I would just like some information on the beautiful soundtrack, who is that singer?

The second would be Alex Belov's video with that great bucolic background, the strange lighting of the cloudy sky, the snowfall, the nice music, all framing Alex's excellent performance.
Yes both were nice vids but settings like that aren't available to everyone and video editing isn't suposed to count if i understand correctly. However Davide's routine flowed very well, had smooth control through out and his opening hex loop added to it IMO.
 
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Yan
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Re: Artistic content?

Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:04 pm

"Vola solo chi osa farlo." - according to google :oops: Fly only those who dare to do

Very nice touch, but I wouldn't score Davide's video higher because of it.

But scoring the videos is a very subjective thing.... maybe it's good that Alex gets a bit of extra credit for getting out in the cold (?-10) and snow to make an entry for VF and that Davide gets a bit of extra credit for good presentation and entering despite lack of good conditions to fly in?