Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum

Moderators: Craig, Davey, Yan, Zippy8

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Yan
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:59 pm

Draw results video is here. :D

Saber II Kite .......................... Gerado Fisanotti,
JoE/VF collaboration mug 1 .......Alexander Belov
Benson Hoodie........................Carlo DeRond
VF17 Finger Straps..................Tom Patterson
JoE/VF collaboration mug 2.......Anthony Eichele
VF17 Wrist Straps...................Marco Ou


Just want to say thanks to all who entered, I think this has been a good round.. =D> =D> =D> =D>

Big thanks again to all who provided prizes.... those VF17 straps look great 8)

From my point of view it's been great...ok, some of the admin stuff is dull, but I have exchanged emails will people from all over the world, brought flyers together and kept the VF spirit alive.

Next round will kick off some time in early January and will be supported by Sportkitedesign. I also really hope that we will have at least one pair of VF18 straps and some new VF mugs :D

Following feedback I will be being at bit more picky next round about letting videos through....
 
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jaydub
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:45 pm

Congratulations, winners. =D>

Certainly can't accuse us of being xenophobic. Not a Brit in there, but then that's part of the British psychie - to lose honourably. ;)
 
Ca Ike
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:25 am

Yan wrote:
Draw results video is here. :D

Saber II Kite .......................... Gerado Fisanotti,
JoE/VF collaboration mug 1 .......Alexander Belov
Benson Hoodie........................Carlo DeRond
VF17 Finger Straps..................Tom Patterson
JoE/VF collaboration mug 2.......Anthony Eichele
VF17 Wrist Straps...................Marco Ou


Just want to say thanks to all who entered, I think this has been a good round.. =D> =D> =D> =D>

Big thanks again to all who provided prizes.... those VF17 straps look great 8)

From my point of view it's been great...ok, some of the admin stuff is dull, but I have exchanged emails will people from all over the world, brought flyers together and kept the VF spirit alive.

Next round will kick off some time in early January and will be supported by Sportkitedesign. I also really hope that we will have at least one pair of VF18 straps and some new VF mugs :D

Following feedback I will be being at bit more picky next round about letting videos through....
Woot! Beginners luck :P Grats to all the winners. When you get a chance please inform us as to what you will be adjusting for the next round as far as DQ's go or what rules you will focus more on. Thanks for all your work YAn.
Congratulations, winners.

Certainly can't accuse us of being xenophobic. Not a Brit in there, but then that's part of the British psychie - to lose honourably.
Yes I do find most brits I know to be quite pragmatic. You did well though John, not easy taking rough flying conditions and getting something out of it. My Zeph in 0-1 with gust to 3 was a challenge but fun trying. Better winds next time :)
 
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gui
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:29 am

Thanks to everyone ! it was really fun...

see you in next round !
 
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Yan
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:47 am

[quote="Ca Ike] Thanks for all your work Yan.
[quote]

You're all welcome, it's been good. :D

With regard to the video entrys for the next rounds, in responce to feedback form other flyers I will be just a little bit more picky about angle of filming and out of frames. There was nothing terribly wrong with any entrys this round, but I need to stay on top of these things!

I am hoping to put in a video just for scoring in the next round. I hope nobody objects.
 
kalle
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:40 am

Don`t worry. It is from flyers for flyers!
 
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ObijuanKenobe
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:51 am

I wasn't in this round, but I did watch the videos.

I'd offer that I saw nothing too terrible. It always comes down to the more you require, the less you will get. If you require no out of frameness...you will lose entries. If you require a certain angle, you will lose entries. What if I am at a narrow beach where filming from behind is not an option?

If someone submits a video from a side angle, and you can't see how beautiful their JLs, cometes or lines are, then the scores will reflect that, or at least should.

I am only saying that this slippery slope has been debated every round. I have submitted videos with out of frame moments in more than one previous round...no real complaints. I didn't win either.

Yan, you are running the show. However, it seems to me that first and foremost concern should remain maximum participation with the lowest requirements for entry possible, while still keeping it cool and exciting.

obi
Image
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
 
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Yan
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:05 am

ObijuanKenobe wrote:
I wasn't in this round, but I did watch the videos.

I'd offer that I saw nothing too terrible. It always comes down to the more you require, the less you will get. If you require no out of frameness...you will lose entries. If you require a certain angle, you will lose entries. What if I am at a narrow beach where filming from behind is not an option?

If someone submits a video from a side angle, and you can't see how beautiful their JLs, cometes or lines are, then the scores will reflect that, or at least should.

I am only saying that this slippery slope has been debated every round. I have submitted videos with out of frame moments in more than one previous round...no real complaints. I didn't win either.

Yan, you are running the show. However, it seems to me that first and foremost concern should remain maximum participation with the lowest requirements for entry possible, while still keeping it cool and exciting.

obi


All taken on board Obi, the key phrase in my last post was 'just a little bit', your right there is a balance to be kept and there are slopes on both sides. :-D
 
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krijn
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:19 am

i vote for a complete in-frame video

i don't care about the angle of filming, it just isn't readable for some tricks, so you should miss some points there


Krijn
 
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fourmatic
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:45 pm

Whose those children are? :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNpcDqL8NT8

Really nice. :D
 
Ca Ike
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:05 am

I am hoping to put in a video just for scoring in the next round. I hope nobody objects.
I don't object myself considering live comp organizers tend to compete as well but as you said yourself bowing out of the prize draws is a fair thing to do. Maybe another alternative ca\n be reached at some point so you can be in the draws too?!?
 
tpatters
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:01 am

I don't mind out of frame flying too much - it gets reflected in the scoring and quite badly if it happens to much. Similarly, vacant flying (nothing interesting going on) is nearly the same - it results in a lessor score. You've got 60-90 seconds and every one of them counts - it literally only takes several seconds of nothing interesting going on in that timeframe in order to become somewhat boring. I think flat-out refusing entries for out of frame flying will only reduce the number of competitors. Hell, the winning entry this round flew directly out of frame in the first few seconds and remained there for seconds afterward. Personally, I still felt he more than made up for it and held a top rating all the same.

I don't think we need more rules or video reviews, a simple scoring guideline would be much better - suggestions of items to consider such as time out of frame, vacant flight, crash-landings, etc. For example, you might describe a technical rating as "how difficult was the trick and how well did the flyer perform it" while artistic might be as simple "how much did I enjoy watching it". For out of frame it could be something like "how long was the kite out of frame - was the entry edited to shorten that time?". For me, those items tend to collapse and a single score would be preferable to separating them, but each competitor has the option to report the scores the same if they wish.

I think this discussion is great and applaud Yan for taking on managing this - whatever you decide I will continue to be involved, I just wanted to give my thoughts on it.

-Tom
 
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Zippy8
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:25 pm

This is with my former VF wrangler hat on. It didn't cost $750:-

tpatters wrote:
I think flat-out refusing entries for out of frame flying will only reduce the number of competitors.

TBH I'd like to hear some concrete evidence of this. This rule~guideline has been relaxed considerably from the origins of VF and feels about right to me. If you think judging the entries that get through is tricky, you should some of the stuff I had to kick back. :(

Hell, the winning entry this round flew directly out of frame in the first few seconds and remained there for seconds afterward.

In all honesty I would have rejected that video for precisely that reason. I covered this here. As I see it this sidesteps the "start on the ground" rule - nothing happens from the launch to exiting the frame so the routine may as well have started in the air.

Unless of course you're going to argue that the "start on the ground" rule is also driving away potential entrants too.

Additionally I'd have sent back several entries for re-editing - some were over 20MB, which is there to stop an Arms Race of FullHD high bitrate videos up against those shot on a phonecam and so that those without fast 'net connections can download the files in a reasonable amount of time, and another had an overly long intro. Nothing that another run through the editing program wouldn't have made go away.

Yan has hosted an excellent round and I'm making no criticism whatsoever of what he's done. I'm just pointing out that I would have done things differently. If I was wrong and should have handled things differently, I'd like to know.

Mike.
 
kalle
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:10 pm

Last time it was the easy taz-machine on the sin, now it is 1,5 seconds out of frame without doing a trick after the start. I mean, what`s wrong with flying a circle before the first trick?

Maybe I broke the "out-of-frame"-rule (which is hard to say, because there is no exact amount of seconds written down in the rules [you really should do it to prevent those discussions!]). But saying I broke the "start-on-the-ground"-rule is simply not right, imo. I started on the ground, flew a circle and started a constant trick-kombo for over a minute without leaving the frame at all.
 
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Zippy8
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Re: VF 17 Videos and discussion

Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:10 pm

kalle wrote:
But saying I broke the "start-on-the-ground"-rule is simply not right, imo. I started on the ground, flew a circle and started a constant trick-kombo for over a minute without leaving the frame at all.

You took off and flew straight out of frame, right ? You didn't do anything until you re-entered the frame. You might as well have started in the air. That's why I think this sort of start isn't appropriate.

However.... no-one else appears to have been bothered by this so it looks like I'm in the wrong here. I'm just wondering if this the approach that I should have been taking in rounds 10 to 16 (minus 14) 'cos I wasn't. I'm pretty sure I rejected some videos for just this sort of thing.

Out of frame has always been a point of contention. I'm pretty sure it will continue to be no matter what is done.

Mike.
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