Fractured Axel

I could have phrased it another way.. "run competitions how they were ran in 1990."

This is when I first started and if competitions had been on both days I wouldn't have been able to take part and probably would have soon lost interest in STACK and kiting full stop.

We had seven teams then to get through in one day.

Sorry.. I honestly believe small changes would have little impact.

You could argue that all the people that were missing from the AGM that would have voted for competitions to be on one day weren't there because they aren't STACK members in the first place.

And while I'm at it...

Medals? Used to be we came away with drawer loads. Coins on ribbons and little silver plates. Personally I thought at the time it was silly. But it meant winners were duly recognised. Now you can win a class and come away with nothing to remember it by at all. And it seems that efforts are not appropriately rewarded.

I don't know which is right. Or even if it's significant in the scheme of things. But I'm sure for some people these things are important.

And surely anyone who wins a trickout should come away with something more than bragging rights (Jaffa Cakes spring to mind)

And anyone who wins all competitions in a season deserves no less than a knighthood ... well, we can dream.

Dave, for those of us who wern't around kites in 1990 how were they run then that was so different from now? And why were the changes made over the years that so turned people away?

SteveB wrote:

Dave, for those of us who wern't around kites in 1990 how were they run then that was so different from now? And why were the changes made over the years that so turned people away?

The fundamental difference was they were held on one day.

I would imagine that at some point after the inclusion of more competitors and disciplines that it became impossible to fit it all in to one day and the weekend competition was born.

Having it on one day made everyone that little more focused... and more interested in what was going on all day because they had to compete in the morning and the afternoon (for those that only competed in one event).

Final scores were also always announced at the end of the day so you could argue to your team mates on the way home as to what they did wrong

SteveB wrote:

And while I'm at it...

Medals? Used to be we came away with drawer loads. Coins on ribbons and little silver plates. Personally I thought at the time it was silly. But it meant winners were duly recognised. Now you can win a class and come away with nothing to remember it by at all. And it seems that efforts are not appropriately rewarded.

I too thought it was silly, which is why I didn't do it. But I noted your comments from last year's AGM, I have plans to rectify this when we have the official prizegiving. Some classes simply don't have 'keep for a year' cups. I could spend money on them but they might not get awarded more than one in 5 years, and, like the multiline trophies, get lost in someone's attic.

SteveB wrote:

And surely anyone who wins a trickout should come away with something more than bragging rights (Jaffa Cakes spring to mind)

This I fundamentally disagree with, the trickout was only ever meant to be a bit of fun at the end of a competition, it has grown to mean something more and I regret letting that slide happen, if you want trick competition then people should look to TP, and there is a plate for that.

mobius wrote:

Final scores were also always announced at the end of the day so you could argue to your team mates on the way home as to what they did wrong

That one we are trying to work on, it was requested at the AGM and the only reason it hasn't happened is that we have been having some technical difficulties now it is all done on computer. In fact, we are aiming to have (almost) live scoring so that after a competitor has finished flying & before the next one flies, their score can be announced.

I hate that idea

SteveB wrote:

The other discussion we had was around the fun element of the events. I remember not so long ago water-fights around the arena and all sorts of not-so-serious shenanigans. These days it all seems to be about getting through the schedule. <snip>. But it could also be something to do with the culture of STACK. And I'd be interested to see if others think that is a debate worth having.

From a personal point of view (hazy memory e.t.c.) the fun seemed to disappear the year we tried the one day approach, competitors turned up, competed and then left, often before the entire competition was over. I didn't have time during the day to think, nevermind do something as creative as have fun. Besides the rest of the festival (for us) was always followed by trying to smooth the ruffled feathers over the fact that very few people were left to demonstrate & the organisers couldn't fill arena slots.

Actually that may explain why I'm just so against the idea of one day competitions.

I think we are beginning to get some fun back, but there may be a long way to go yet.

SteveB wrote:

<snip> we need to find a way to raise the value of TP to the point where people want to compete in TP weather or not they fly IRB.

Plans are afoot to do just this, watch this (or a very similar) space

SteveB wrote:

The other discussion we had was around the fun element of the events. I remember not so long ago water-fights around the arena and all sorts of not-so-serious shenanigans. These days it all seems to be about getting through the schedule.

I object to that, I have deliberately spread the schedule across two days and filled it with breaks for judges and other items (eg Rok fights) so that there is time for the fun. I always fight against 'moving on' in the schedule and push to keep the discipline start times as close to published as possible.

SteveB wrote:

Now that might just be because the weather these last couple of years has been rubbish. Or because the festivals pressure us to use the arena in a certain time frame.

That is only true of Southampton, otherwise we have the weekend to use as we like. Of course, going to one day only for competition we might not be so welcome at Rougham, Weston or the British Leisure Show...

Don't forget, until the competition is self sustaining, we have to rely on other's events to attract the future's participants.

SteveB wrote:

But it could also be something to do with the culture of STACK. And I'd be interested to see if others think that is a debate worth having.

I think a lot of the shenanigans were partly doe to the (mental?) age of the participants, these people have grown up, and with no-one infilling behind them, that aspect was lost.

One thing we haven't debated is whether the competition should be 'fun' at all? Does not the enjoyment come from winning and shouldn't you all be focussed on that.

Vee wrote:

mobius wrote:

Final scores were also always announced at the end of the day so you could argue to your team mates on the way home as to what they did wrong

That one we are trying to work on, it was requested at the AGM and the only reason it hasn't happened is that we have been having some technical difficulties now it is all done on computer. In fact, we are aiming to have (almost) live scoring so that after a competitor has finished flying & before the next one flies, their score can be announced.

I hate that idea

Calculating the scores on the day is a thankless task.. but it makes a big difference. Again it's another thing that adds value. Hopefully the recent rulebook changes to simplify scoring for precision will help to make the data entry quicker.

I've competed where they announced the scores 2 or 3 competitors after you.. and I didn't like it either.. however it is very good for the crowd watching who might all be gone by the time the scores are announced at the end of the day.

Keithgrif wrote:

One thing we haven't debated is whether the competition should be 'fun' at all? Does not the enjoyment come from winning and shouldn't you all be focussed on that.

If you don't find it 'fun' then you shouldn't be doing it and if you have to win to enjoy it... that's just sad! This might sound trite, but surely it's the taking part that gives the enjoyment. If you're serious with that comment Keith, then I think you've just defined why competition is dying.

Amen!

mobius wrote:

Calculating the scores on the day is a thankless task..

<- that's me being surprised

My final input on this: more often than not the organiser of events (any event) will have to sacrifice their fun so that others can have some. This is how it works.

Mike.

RoyReed wrote:

Keithgrif wrote:

One thing we haven't debated is whether the competition should be 'fun' at all? Does not the enjoyment come from winning and shouldn't you all be focussed on that.

If you don't find it 'fun' then you shouldn't be doing it and if you have to win to enjoy it... that's just sad! This might sound trite, but surely it's the taking part that gives the enjoyment. If you're serious with that comment Keith, then I think you've just defined why competition is dying.

Not my opinion, just playing devil's advocate

Zippy8 wrote:

My final input on this: more often than not the organiser of events (any event) will have to sacrifice their fun so that others can have some. This is how it works.

Mike.

Amen