Fractured Axel

This was discussed in passing at Bath the other week, and so credit generally to Pete.

I've had a think about it, and reckon it'd be brilliant as a STACK chill out format to sit along-side TP (UK)

Here's how it works...

There's a list of tricks starting pretty easy, getting progressively more testing. Each competitor takes the centre stage and works through the list in order. 3 attempts at each move, with the rest of the competitors raising a red or green flag to denote success or failure. A majority of green flags and you move on to the next trick, collecting points along the way. 3 x majority red flags for any move, and you're out.

The actual list can swap and change whenever, and is open to debate in terms of difficulty progression etc., but any comments thus far before approaching the powers that be.

As a side, I'll try and pull one of these together as a tester at the Hinckley BFD in a few weeks.

Bryan

I like this idea a lot. Particularly because I can see it as a way for people to be pushed to widen their repertoire of tricks.

I can see arguments about the order of tricks, especially if the order is posted in advanced, or according to a fixed ranking. Just think about, say, a flat spin. On a light wind day it's an easy trick. Wen the wind gets up it's a bugger. An insane works the other way around. So I'd think there needs to be a mechanism for the competitors to vote/nominate a flying order. It would also work to get the fliers buy-in at the start of the competition: always a challenge with peer judged formats!

Just my 2c

Steve

This is a great idea. Do you think there's an opportunity to represent this in virtual format too? As with virtualfreestyle, except it doesn't have to be on a round per round basis. You'd enter your video footage (one clip per trick) when ever you have recorded it (three times per clip or what ever). Peers vote on style, execution, etc and you take your place on the ladder that way.

SteveB wrote:

I like this idea a lot. Particularly because I can see it as a way for people to be pushed to widen their repertoire of tricks.

agreed, though TP does this as well.

SteveB wrote:

I can see arguments about the order of tricks, especially if the order is posted in advanced, or according to a fixed ranking. Just think about, say, a flat spin. On a light wind day it's an easy trick. Wen the wind gets up it's a bugger. An insane works the other way around. So I'd think there needs to be a mechanism for the competitors to vote/nominate a flying order. It would also work to get the fliers buy-in at the start of the competition: always a challenge with peer judged formats!

So we have a pick list preposted of y tricks and x of them are picked on the day (by organiser with reference to conditions). It's done like this to some extent with IRB with 3 from 5.

My concern is the length of time the whole thing might take with up to 3 attempts each and a field of seriously good fliers - how about the option they have with athletics, long jump and such, people can skip 'easier' tricks with the risk they can crash and burn getting nothing. I realise this has the disadvantage of someone skipping tricks they cannot do because at the end there is a yoyo-comete that they can do

Please note that this is to be voted on by STACK and if adopted will be replacing TO at STACK events.

This will mean that both STACK trick formats are predefined trick formats, there is no completely 'freestyle' format - though the TP ballet gives this you still have to do the compulsory tricks.

I am not advocating one over the other, just pointing out things.

Sounds like an interesting concept, but I think that in an arena situation the crowd would find it as entertaining as TO.
Outside of the arena, it sounds like a great idea, and I think that piloting the concept over the winter is the right way to go.

All good points...

I reckon there'd probably be 2 ladder lists for novices (one aimed at lighter wind conditions, one for stronger winds) and a separate 2 ladder lists for EXP / Masters, again for different winds, but pitched at (and starting from) a higher skill level. Ladders announced at the start of the season, to run through the year.

With a decent commentator, field firection and crowd spectacle could be handled in one hit, without an audience - 'sno problem anyways.

Bryan

You Alright there boys???

Join in!

Bryan

I'm just a noob, so treat my thoughts as such, but I see a couple of things that need/should be avoided.

1. Any mechanism where a competitor can skip all the way to the most advance (but only) trick he/she can do and can win - the format should recognise versatility.
2. Any undue penalising of a competitor because there happens to be one "easy" trick they can't do.
3. Taking ages and ages to complete the comp.

Here's a couple of thoughts. If there is a published list and order of tricks (with variations for wind conditions) then everyone knows what they have to work towards so this seems a sound footing. To address the time issue, how about not having three attempts at each trick, but being allowed only five fails in the whole comp. This limits the time the format takes (for example with a list of ten tricks, a competitor could take 30 attempts to get the lot, but with a 5 fails and you're out, the max is 15). Of course, this moves away from the ladder concept... To avoid the early elimination of someone because they can't do an "easy" trick, how about a "joker" for each person, allowing them to skip a trick - but only one. Comined with the aove "five lives" rule, you could see people failing three times on a trick and playing the joker, gambling on completing a harder trick rather than risk more fails.

Of course, all this makes the scoring and admin more complicated... and all the talk of "lives" and "jokers" reminds me of "It's a knockout". Perhaps if it could become a festival format, Stuart Hall could compere...

OK, I'll crawl back under my rock now...

Not so sure about two sets of ladders for novice and Exp. masters kind of defeats the object. I think there should be one ladder with the possability of removable tricks for wind conditions and a way of earning a higher starting point from previous rounds picking up from where you left off and then everything resets at the end of the season.

I was just wondering (and I may be way off the mark here), but it seems there are 2 ways to organise this: vertical (as described - each pilot works his way though the list in turn) or horizontal, where each flier has their next attempt in turn, so the competition works its way through the tricks (rather like a high jump works up the heights). This way the competition becomes 'last man standing', and I have to say that rather appeals to me as a format.

And I like the idea of (say) 5 lives and 1 pass, rather than 3 attempts for each trick.

Also, I think the judging could be simplified. If you have one administrator, who works his way along the line, keeping a tally of progress. (with a pre-printed sheet, this becomes almost trivial)He could call the trick good or bad. If the flier disagrees, then call for a fliers vote. I'd want to trial these ideas, but I suspect it could save a huge amount of time and make the competition move along at a more exciting pace.

Steve

I think it's definitely firming up here. In particular the most recent two posts from Dave and Steve (standing on the shoulders of giants, of course), i.e.:

- One ladder for all
- Removable tricks (define each trick as removable in high or low wind, if necessary)
- Judge then appeal and vote
- Five lives and one pass

I'm haven't mentioned the variable start point as I haven't worked through how it would work.

Stuart said:
I'm haven't mentioned the variable start point as I haven't worked through how it would work.

I'm visualising the ladder as working over a series of competitions with a time limit for each flyer to get as high up as possible if you get to for instance to trick no 5, in the next competition you start at trick No 6 and so on. This is more or a league type version I think. I also think that maybe the flyer should decide whether to take out or leave in the high/low wind tricks whith bonus points for success. Just a couple of ideas although probably way off course from Pete's original idea.