I have a feeling that if France did not propose to organized an Eurocup they will be NO Eurocup!
STACK UK was planning a possible EC2006 but we did not have everything ready before Michel announced the event in Fort Mahon.
Fractured Axel
Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum
Moderators: Craig, bryan beasley, Keithgrif
-
-
aphelps
FA Supporter
- Posts: 2057
- Joined:
- Location: Southern UK<br>The Flying Squad
-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
I've read all the stuff going on and all the blame seems to be heading towards SIEC but I've go to ask:
why haven't the organisers/FFVL actually signed this thing off yet themselves ?
I've had experience in the past with EC organisers who seek to change the rules to what they want rather than what has been agreed upon before, usually for cock-waving reasons.
If you just want an EC, fine but it might be a little strange.
If you'd rather have EC as you expect it to be, maybe there is a problem.
Mike,
ex-SIEC. VERY ex.
why haven't the organisers/FFVL actually signed this thing off yet themselves ?
I've had experience in the past with EC organisers who seek to change the rules to what they want rather than what has been agreed upon before, usually for cock-waving reasons.
If you just want an EC, fine but it might be a little strange.
If you'd rather have EC as you expect it to be, maybe there is a problem.
Mike,
ex-SIEC. VERY ex.
-
-
shamu
FA Supporter
- Posts: 592
- Joined:
- Location: Brizzle
- Contact:
oh joy oh rapture
mumble mumble
mumble mumble
::
Robin Smith
::
Sponsored by Carl Robertshaw: www.kitestudio.com
::
Fractured Axel Shop :
Shanti Lines (Nice one guys!)
Robin Smith
::
Sponsored by Carl Robertshaw: www.kitestudio.com
::
Fractured Axel Shop :
Shanti Lines (Nice one guys!)
-
- Alain
- Posts: 176
- Joined:
@ Mike
I really dont know what SIEC want, but i know for sure it is not what the pilots want, just ask some of the competitor you know what they think!
They love to take holliday at the last minute!
They are happy to have 1/4 or 1/3 of the national competition not counting for the Eurocup selection because of date clash!
They are happy to pay a lot of money to be part of it!
And i will pass on they comment about the juges pannel at EC just to stay on topic...
alain
I really dont know what SIEC want, but i know for sure it is not what the pilots want, just ask some of the competitor you know what they think!
They love to take holliday at the last minute!
They are happy to have 1/4 or 1/3 of the national competition not counting for the Eurocup selection because of date clash!
They are happy to pay a lot of money to be part of it!
And i will pass on they comment about the juges pannel at EC just to stay on topic...
alain
-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
Alain wrote:I really dont know what SIEC want, but i know for sure it is not what the pilots want, just ask some of the competitor you know what they think!
Hey potential EuroCup competitors !!! What do you think ?
BTW re: the money part - get used to it. The times when someone else is going to pay you to take part in your hobby is few and far between. Relish it when it happens, but don't expect it.
Mike.
-
-
Vee
FA Supporter
- Posts: 989
- Joined:
- Location: Next to a flying field in Northamptonshire
I want: open communication lines,
the whole damn thing organised before I have to finalise my shifts.
As far as money is concerned, I just want to know. Whether it counts or not, I just want to know. For judges, I want them to be the same for all.
That's it. All in all, I just want to know. Then I can make an informed decision of whether or not to attend. I am quite sure it is 6 of one & half a dozen of the other, but I only have access to SIEC to complain to.
the whole damn thing organised before I have to finalise my shifts.
As far as money is concerned, I just want to know. Whether it counts or not, I just want to know. For judges, I want them to be the same for all.
That's it. All in all, I just want to know. Then I can make an informed decision of whether or not to attend. I am quite sure it is 6 of one & half a dozen of the other, but I only have access to SIEC to complain to.
Love Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Needs to fly more, now that I can.
Needs to fly more, now that I can.
-
-
mobius
FA Supporter
- Posts: 1733
- Joined:
- Location: Ouistreham, Normandy, France
- Contact:
I certainly know that when we competed as a pair, we planned our whole year in preparation for EuroCup... doubling and then tripling up our practices in the weeks before. This in itself had reasonable financial costs in terms of petrol and also the even greater emotional costs of convincing respective partners about spending more time with ones kite than them.
For individuals, pairs and multi-line teams.. EuroCup is "THE" highest event in their calendar. It should be STACK's flagship event.. the event that all STACK competitors strive to qualify for. I'm not sure it is now.
This is not the first time that EC has been put in to troubles of an organisational nature.. some have even been cancelled out-right. You would have at least thought that lessons would have been learnt.
The trouble is, is that whatever conflicts are happening are happening behind closed doors. This is not good PR for SIEC. If they have concerns for the competition and they are valid concerns then why not make this public? If they are valid the competitors will back them.
Surely as paid up members we have a right to know what's really going on here.
I personally will support the Fort Mahon competition whether or not it gets the SIEC seal of approval. I have been given no good reason why I shouldn't. Is there one?
For individuals, pairs and multi-line teams.. EuroCup is "THE" highest event in their calendar. It should be STACK's flagship event.. the event that all STACK competitors strive to qualify for. I'm not sure it is now.
This is not the first time that EC has been put in to troubles of an organisational nature.. some have even been cancelled out-right. You would have at least thought that lessons would have been learnt.
The trouble is, is that whatever conflicts are happening are happening behind closed doors. This is not good PR for SIEC. If they have concerns for the competition and they are valid concerns then why not make this public? If they are valid the competitors will back them.
Surely as paid up members we have a right to know what's really going on here.
I personally will support the Fort Mahon competition whether or not it gets the SIEC seal of approval. I have been given no good reason why I shouldn't. Is there one?
Dave Morley
-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
Surely as paid up members we have a right to know what's really going on here.
But don't the two posts from SIEC on the STACK site state pretty clearly why sanctioning has yet to be confirmed ?
FFVL has come up with a poorly written contract they want STACK to sign in violation on the STACK Charter and the ISK Rules, Judges' and Compulsories Books in a number of places.
The SIEC still has not STACK sanctioned EuroCup because the organization has not :
- delivered the proper, completed and signed STACK sanction forms
- replied as requested to the acceptance text sent to them on 5 July.
Now if these issues don't represent a problem to the competitors or judges let SIEC know this and let them say OK to FFVL to run this EuroCup to their specs. if that's what you'd be happy with.
I, as a non-affected third party, would be intrigued to find out why FFVL see fit to behave like this however. It's not the first EuroCup they've put on after all. And what are they suggesting ? Circular fields ? Different timings ? New figures ? Anyone know ?
Mike,
I should keep out of this stuff.
Last edited by Zippy8 on Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
-
mobius
FA Supporter
- Posts: 1733
- Joined:
- Location: Ouistreham, Normandy, France
- Contact:
-
-
aphelps
FA Supporter
- Posts: 2057
- Joined:
- Location: Southern UK<br>The Flying Squad
Exactly.. why can't they tell us the specifics then we can make a judgement for ourselves.
And there is the problem. STACK uses the International Rulebook and technically STACK sanction to run a Eurocup, but I am not certain of the restrictions in this regard (does STACK own the rights to "Eurocup"). So therefore, if you want to compete at a Eurocup, STACK requires the event to be run according to the IRBC rules.
Therefore, if any organisation wanted to run a competition with slightly revised rules, IMHO this would be an Open competition much like the old Le Touquet/Berck/Scheveneneningingen competitions. It could technically not be a Eurocup.
I am aware that the signed sanction forms have been received, so good news there. No we just need to sort of the political background.
Watch this space.
Andy
-
-
shamu
FA Supporter
- Posts: 592
- Joined:
- Location: Brizzle
- Contact:
I see no reason why we shouldn't be using the rulebook as is... given the fact that this is what the world champs is based on.
from a team perspective eurocup is (still tbc... mumble mumble) likely to be the only qualifying stage to get us to the worlds... so i would be pissed if they changed the rules?!
from a team perspective eurocup is (still tbc... mumble mumble) likely to be the only qualifying stage to get us to the worlds... so i would be pissed if they changed the rules?!
::
Robin Smith
::
Sponsored by Carl Robertshaw: www.kitestudio.com
::
Fractured Axel Shop :
Shanti Lines (Nice one guys!)
Robin Smith
::
Sponsored by Carl Robertshaw: www.kitestudio.com
::
Fractured Axel Shop :
Shanti Lines (Nice one guys!)
-
- Alain
- Posts: 176
- Joined:
shamu wrote:from a team perspective eurocup is (still tbc... mumble mumble) likely to be the only qualifying stage to get us to the worlds... so i would be pissed if they changed the rules?!
did you read this too about EC and WC?
http://stack.aerialis.no/web/uploads/cervia.pdf