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Jezza
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:33 pm

I have just emailed Yu Jie at Albatross asking him to price me up for a batch Rev 'Replicas' because as much as I look I cannot find anywhere to buy one from them? Someone got a link?

However I have found loads of chinese factories (erm 120ish according to google) some of which will build me some amazing 'replicas' including one who will sell me an 'eyes' rev!!

I shall read the specs out to you!

Weight 330g *dam thats light! only 100g heavier than my Albatross!
Frame 10mm *Well..10mm has got to be better than 8!
Materials Ripstop Nylon, carbom frame *I love carbom! But I could of sworn that other people selling this kite were saying it had a plastic frame? Hmmm

Just look at eeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!! is it not something to behold??

Image
Clearly, I'm part of the problem.
 
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Jezza
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:44 pm

mnkby wrote:
Yes. Albatross, Weifang and others.


Weifang is actually a city in Shandong east china and Albatross is the name of the company, most chinese kite cloners come from Weifang but not all kite makers in Weifang manufacture counterfiets. I am genuinely interested in the information that led you to that conclusion? Can we see where? or a link? (obviously not the Rev forum posting that leads here as that would be kind of subjective).

Thanks.
Clearly, I'm part of the problem.
 
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Flying Fish
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:02 pm

^ Exactly, that's what I mean; thanks Jezza. What evidence is there that Albatross is making counterfeit kites today. Just being located in the same city as a counterfeiting company isn't exactly strong evidence of guilt ...
 
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mnkby
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:12 pm

Jezza wrote:
mnkby wrote:
Yes. Albatross, Weifang and others.


Weifang is actually a city in Shandong east china and Albatross is the name of the company, most chinese kite cloners come from Weifang but not all kite makers in Weifang manufacture counterfiets. I am genuinely interested in the information that led you to that conclusion? Can we see where? or a link? (obviously not the Rev forum posting that leads here as that would be kind of subjective).

Thanks.


Really? Surely you jest!

I am well aware that Weifang is a city, but, thanks, I'll clarify and use the full name of Weifang Kite Company. I didn't realize the need to be so pedantic. :lol:

I have seen the pictures, first hand, from Ben's visit to the Weifang kite festival this year and his visits to both companies. The picture back in this thread from Daz, with the two psuedo Bs was taken by Ben, while he was there and I'll add, with other people as well.

In fact, next time I see ben, I shall grab a few of the shots with the EXIF data intact, demonstrating where it was shot and who's camera it was. Which likely won't be good enough anyways but hey, I do what I can.

Damn those are some ugly eyes, I'll stick with Bazzers ;-)
David Hathaway, Revolutionary
-~ http://www.iquad.ca
 
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Jezza
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:25 pm

I wasnt being sarcastic or anything I was actually pointing out the difference when you group 'Albatross, weifang and others'. I thought grouping weifang as a city with a manufacturer probably needed seperating. Apologies if I offended you.

Have you got the link to the pictures of inside the factory we can see? I saw the one on the Rev forum under "China Here I Come and I Promise To Be Nice..." of the inside of the Albatross factory which has the 3 tribals standing up plus one of a gentleman stood outside at the sign. Thats the only ones I could see related?

EDIT sorry I re-read and saw you were going to ask him direct for them. Thanks.

And EDIT AGAIN:

I think if you/they do prove it that would make it hard to justify people talking about them morally so its probably worth it in that respect.

For me its too late, I have been quite offended by the name calling and attitude of Revolution but I certainly would not openly endorse Alb's anymore even if I still fly them. It has gotta be pretty solid proof though because the 'flimsy poor quality' argument they gave can be shot down in moments by not correlating to the product we all that own one have in front of us. I have one next to me now, it does not fall apart, is not made of small children and does not contain an ounce of modified cat. My cat who humps everything knows the difference :)
Clearly, I'm part of the problem.
 
Harrier
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:51 pm

Over a long period of time we have seen allegations made of counterfeit kite production from various Chinese kite manufacturers and without doubt some must be true.
However, for a similar period I do not remember seeing such counterfeit kites available on Ebay UK where most folk here buy from, I do remember a while back some SLE copies offered along with I believe Blasts on other Ebay sites, some from the US incidentally.

When we first became aware of the Chinese quads in 2009 we enquired of Bing at 4M as whether he did indeed make Rev copies and was assured he did not.
As has been expressed many times over we have no interest in counterfeit kites, and as far as I am aware I have never seen one, the kites sold currently by 4M on Ebay UK and labelled Albatross are not counterfeits if they were it would be easy to have Ebay pull the listings.

Now given there is very little evidence, if any, of counterfeit Rev kites appearing here in any sort of quantity, why all the song and dance from Rev? where is the threat to Rev coming from?
With all the bad feeling, sadly encouraged by the company, it is most likely the biggest threat to Revs future success is probably coming from much nearer to home.

The multi coloured and vented Albatross “tribal’s” in Daz’s pictures were bought from 4M kites via Ebay UK, not the other outfit mentioned above, we customised them ourselves.

If we were forced to look into the ethics of every company we buy from or deal with and only buy from those without fault, before starving or freezing to death we would end up without Revs, walking everywhere, in tatters and most probably in bare feet.
Of course the same result can be achieved much easier by buying too many expensive Revs. :lol:
 
sailor99
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:09 pm

Weifang are certainly a bunch of complete twunts. And a hundred others, mostly on guandong and yilu. As far as I am aware, and I have been personally assured by the guys who run the weifang festival, albatros are among the good guys. Not everyone in China is an evil counterfeiting scum bag.

I am not sure if you are stating your personal view or an 'official' view David. But at the risk of causing offence, it doesn't seem far off the mark with what people are saying here; that anything passing itself off as a brand is bad/fraudulent/a pestilence, as are any manufacturers doing so (possibly including albatross subject to debate). Neither deserves any support from anyone here. But a factory or individual turning out a WSQLK unbranded or self branded maybe cheap, may not be innovative, but is fine.

It seems to me that, if I've understood you correctly, there is a remarkably high level of agreement and, if it's the official position, that the only real area of debate is the possible fraudulent activities of albatross. Certainly no need for the bad blood and Kent's petulant name calling. At the end of the day, FFS it's only kites!

On the other hand, if non branded WSQLKs are fine with rev, I find myself wondering why rev have tried to nail a small one man band kite make who made a few non-branders to his own design in the UK. Or why they accuse innocent bystanders like me of being importers of counterfeits when I have never even seen one! I'm not sure everyone is so rational and reasonable as you David.

BTW I undersold the earlier Ben photo was from weifang not Albatross.
 
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Old Greebo
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:51 pm

I suppose anything that's non-Rev and W-shaped is going to offend the fundamentalists.
I do not suppose any of us would knowingly and voluntarily buy a counterfeit.
However, apparently one in 20 of the one-pound coins jangling about in your pocket these days is counterfeit. When you find you've got a dud, do you take it down to the police station and hand it in? Or do you just pass it off at the next opportunity?
Yes, I thought so. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Ordinary quad "copies" though?
It's been said before - every delta could be said to be a copy of every other delta, in one way or another. Same applies to 4-line kites, methinks. It boils down to a crossbar and a couple of struts, and apart from daft (but nice) elephant designs it's hard to deviate from the W-shape. Intersecting diamonds are really just a bent 'W'. So surely we should have no qualms about buying quads that don't bear the "intelligent design, God-approved" logo of the Rev.

I'd like to see a quad kite shaped (& coloured) like a bra. Complete with trailing 'straps'and all that. I bet someone's already done it. But I digress ...

When I started this thread, I just wanted someone to say that the kite being offered on eBay was (a) valid, (b) flyable, and (c) enjoyable. I'm still a newbie, and dammit, you've all got useful opinions on hosts of different Deltas, so I thought - hoped - there would be people here who could be objective about this kite. Thanks to those of you (Jason and Daz in particular) who offered hands-on experience and spoke out (sensibly) in favour of the Chinkwad (I like that better than Chinalution!). And everybody's contribution here has helped me to decide where I want to go when I get fed up with the unimaginative colours of the 1.5 SLE I bought just a couple of months ago.

And after all, this section of the Fractured Axel is labelled "Quad Line Tricks and flying", not "Rev Worship". Innit?
Brian. (Past it, but reaching back!)
Silver Fox 2.5; HQ Shadow SUL; Rev 1.5 SLE; Spiderkites URO; Etc...
 
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Jezza
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:26 am

lol, a quad kite like a bra...hmmmmmm I like your thinking! But whos bra?? Katie Prices? I dont think all the combined material suppliers in the UK have that much on hand! :)

I have actually been toying with the idea of using my airbrushing skills to create some logos on blank sails with the correct paints. Assuming I dont get hunted down and kidnapped by revolution fundamentalists I might airbrush a bra and associated cleavage on one of my blank sails in your honor Greebo! :)

I really like old 50's pinup stuff (like bomber nose art) so I am hoping to do some of them on my sails in future. Obviously I have to keep them tasteful but I do want to use the bit of artistic skill I have in my kiting obsession. I've just got to decide if my missus who is a very skillfull tailor/Upholsterer can make me a decent sail or if I have to get some blanks made in china :badgrin:
Clearly, I'm part of the problem.
 
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mnkby
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:00 am

sailor99 wrote:
I am not sure if you are stating your personal view or an 'official' view David. But at the risk of causing offence, it doesn't seem far off the mark with what people are saying here; that anything passing itself off as a brand is bad/fraudulent/a pestilence, as are any manufacturers doing so (possibly including albatross subject to debate).


I speak for myself, I am not an employee of Revolution. If you'd like, I can point you to a few examples where I have vigorously defended quad kites that are not Revolutions. ;-)

sailor99 wrote:
It seems to me that, if I've understood you correctly, there is a remarkably high level of agreement and, if it's the official position, that the only real area of debate is the possible fraudulent activities of albatross. Certainly no need for the bad blood and Kent's petulant name calling. At the end of the day, FFS it's only kites!


I'm not one to quote "official position" however, the evidence of what I suggest surrounds us all, with some stunning examples of home built quads that utterly resemble Revs. Again, I point to the Polos, Shooks, and Gonzalez Brothers of the world. No bad blood from me. :-)
David Hathaway, Revolutionary
-~ http://www.iquad.ca
 
sailor99
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:26 am

I thought the gonzalez and shooks were sanctioned? Polos are "for personal artistic use" aren't they, and I think rev have long said that is OK? They dont seem to be what is at debate here; assuming ( which may or may not be correct, but go with it or the moment) albatross are not making branded fakes, the question then would be why should they not make own brand WS4LQs? Why should they have to go to rev and seek approval? This is all people were saying, but got shouted down,ridiculed and slandered for.

I'm afraid rev are coming over as having an unhealthy evangelical obsession IMHO. They don't seem to realise they have some enormously loyal fans in the UK, and accusing them of all sorts of things, publicly and in gossip, does rev no credit. If the real problem is that they know albatross are fakers then thats fine and dandy - expect huge support. But if, as it appears based on their actions, they want to surpress any valid competition, and to silence any dissident opinion, well that's not so good. All they need to do is be clear and unambiguous, then we all know where we stand.

OT if you take fake £1 to the bank they will swap them for true coins. Afraid the argument doesn't work for me - I don't want money counterfeiters to profit from shoving fakes in my pocket. At any time shops can start refusing them (my company does not accept suspicious coins) and the people will be peeved.
 
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Flying Fish
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:05 am

I'd like to see a quad kite shaped (& coloured) like a bra. Complete with trailing 'straps' and all that. I bet someone's already done it.


Jan's Airbra comes closest: http://www.kitejan.me.uk/quad/airbra.htm

David, can I just say that it's very refreshing to hear a voice of reason come from the Revolution side of the debate. Certainly after all the quasi-religious "thou shalt not ... or face eternal damnation", bullying and name-calling that erupted in the now-locked thread at the other place.

I have tried hard over the last few days to find a counterfeit Revolution offered for sale (no, I wouldn't ever buy it; hope that doesn't need stressing any more). Nothing on the Albatross web-site or any other Chinese kite company that I could find (though I'm sure I haven't checked them all). I have been keeping a close eye on eBay (UK) for kites for quite a while and check eBay (US) occasionally, but have never seen a single counterfeit Rev. So if they're not marketed to international customers who are they sold to? Domestically, at kite festivals in China and out the back door? Not saying Revolution should condone that (they have every right to try and stamp out counterfeiting), but I'm curious where the people that supposedly bought cheap counterfeit Revs that fly like a brick (according to the other place) are and where they got these kites ....
 
sailor99
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:28 am

I have never seen fakes on sale in china, or at least the bits I go to. There are lots of SLKs in the Chinese fashion, and lots of 2Ls (not faked but I am far from expert on 2Ls). Quads don't really appear to have taken off over there in the same way. Most of the flying is done in the park/seaside prom/ etc and you always get men with barrow loads of kites to sell, all of which seem to be legit.

Interestingly I have never seen one on any of the fakes markets/underground stations/tourist haunts where you see all the fake rolex watches and mont blanc pens. I guess they are just not high volume enough.

You do get fake revs on eBay. Mostly it seems on the international site rather than the uk site. To me it seems less often now, but they quite often pose as private sellers. Photos raided from the rev site are a dead giveaway. But I suspect the main way to get one is to email one of the websites that advertise fake kites and asking after a rev. There are lots of them, but I won't post a link if you don't mind. Search closely and you will find them, although revolution may not be the best search term as this is not the principle target.
 
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Flying Fish
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:58 am

No, please don't post links! So it's a case of me not having trawled deep enough or searched in the right places.

OT, but if you're flying at Stokes Bay on Sunday, I'll come say hi :cool:
 
sailor99
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Re: Ebay << 290580603675 >>

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:17 am

Not flying this weekend myself although the others may be doing. I have to ensure a yacht race leaves ok (www.clipperroundtheworld.com) although we will use stokes bay sailing club as one of the buoys.
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