View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:42 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Challenger Sails Miró 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:43 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
Post Challenger Sails Miró
OK, it looks like I'm not getting the photos off my camera anytime soon so.....
The Miró is the big brother of the Mondrian, not a rescale of that kite but certainly speaking the same design language and with many of the same build features. At 2.6m the only current kite that compares would be the Transfer XT.S. It's a big kite that's aimed at pairs/team flying.

The main build difference is that it ditches the yoyo stoppers for a yoyo line (à la Fury) and adds a fourth bridle leg connecting the tow point to the centre of the LE. Both of these are adjustable via knots in addition to all other bridle legs so if you enjoy bridle fiddling this kite is going to be heaven for you. If you don't.... then just don't bother. With built in leaders as well the kite carries a lot of bridle that can be a pain when putting the kite away or taking it out.

Framing is necessarily beefed up with P400 LEs and the oh-so-sexy Nitros for LSs. A chunky frame means that the minimum wind speed is quoted as 10km/h (6mph), although this is conservative. At that windspeed the kite is flyable without legwork, if you're prepared to break a sweat then a little less is useable.

Again the sail is reinforced heavily where it needs to be. And again the fine details are a pleasure.

My flight time so far has been restricted but it comes across as quite a different beast to the Mondrian. If you enjoy a yank-'n'-spank approach or are used to kites that go out of their way to make you look good and hand out the moves, you may be in for a shock or a lesson. The kite needs a deliberate approach to make stuff happen - setup, action, recovery. Miss any step out or go at it half-arsed and you'll be disappointed. Big inputs needed too with plenty of arm and no little footwork. On the few occasions that I did manage to string it together properly I got absolutely textbook moves as my reward. When I didn't (ie; most of the time) then not so much.

The Miró flies and tricks pretty slowly at all times. Whilst OK on 30m lines it enjoyed 35m+ even more, given more room to breathe. Pull isn't massive but even in moderate winds I might be reaching for some heavier lines and brakes (and not be flying on a frozen lake either).

I'd definitely call this a kite aimed at those who already know what they're doing. I enjoyed the heck out of it when my flying was at the level it demanded, the size and slow pace of the kite really emphasised what was going on but when I wasn't quite there it became a bit frustrating. It's not difficult to fly but it is a challenge to fly well, both physically and mentally.

Once I get home I'll put more time on it and have a crack at the bridle. If I owned one I'm not sure just how often I'd reach for it at the start of a session but it might be the one I switch to if my brain's in gear that day.

Mike.


Last edited by Zippy8 on Tue May 12, 2009 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:18 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:27 pm
Posts: 1039
Location: Rotterdam, Holland.
Post 
Sounds like a nice kite indeed.
But the label indicates it's aimed at a different market:

Image

:P

_________________
Image kareloh.com


Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:21 am
Profile WWW
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:46 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Next to a flying field in Northamptonshire
Post 
Sounds like a kite that's right up my street.

Of course I realise that may not do it any favours, my taste being what it is ;)

_________________
Love Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
haven't broken a kite in a while but managed to sprain an ankle at Bristol...
chasing after a kite I broke! It takes much longer to fix an ankle: current prognosis 1 year: don't do it.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:17 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:43 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
Post 
In fact I'd really like some that does the whole Pairs/Team thing to give this an extended whirl. The kite is aimed at a market that I'm not part of so an insider's view would be appreciated.

Mike.


Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:43 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:32 am
Posts: 986
Post 
Interesting kite although I'm not sure where they are going with this one.

According to their sales blurb:
Our gaol has not only been reached, it was the starting point. :?


Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:30 am
Profile
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 1896
Location: near Towcester
Post 
Zippy8 wrote:
In fact I'd really like some that does the whole Pairs/Team thing to give this an extended whirl. The kite is aimed at a market that I'm not part of so an insider's view would be appreciated.

Mike.


Send us two then :-)

We'd like to take a look at this one, though it's not going to get anywhere in the comp circuit 'til they add a vented to the range, and the design of those sorts the men from the boys.

Std goes to 35km/h (22mph)? - is that like Carl's "one kite for all wind ranges" Fury? Be interested to see the usable wind range, rather than the "it won't break" wind range.

_________________
Keith
STACK UK
National Director 2006-2012

ExGrads pairs, fourth in Europe 2011!!!
Airheads team, 10th in the world 2012


Last edited by Keithgrif on Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:52 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:43 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
Post 
Keithgrif wrote:
We'd like to take a look at this one, though it's not going to get anywhere in the comp circuit 'til they add a vented to the range

"The comp. circuit" ?!?!?! :shock:

That aside.... :-) I'm sure that this is precisely the sort of information that would come in useful.

Quote:
Std goes to 35km/h (22mph)?

Just how brave are you feeling ? :wink:

Mike.


Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:00 am
Profile WWW
FA Supporter
FA Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:46 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Next to a flying field in Northamptonshire
Post 
Zippy8 wrote:
"The comp. circuit" ?!?!?! :shock:


Yup. For us it goes eastbound on the M4, somewhere else, westbound on the M4, for 95% of all kite events.

_________________
Love Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
haven't broken a kite in a while but managed to sprain an ankle at Bristol...
chasing after a kite I broke! It takes much longer to fix an ankle: current prognosis 1 year: don't do it.


Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:14 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:43 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
Post 
Okay, I've dithered for waaay too long over this. :disgusted: But I have my reasons :-D

Image
I've been trying very hard to love the Miró. It hasn't quite worked out. I suppose there were faults on both sides....

I think part of the problem is that it is highly adjustable. You're not presented with a completed, here's-the-kite-now-go-learn-how-to-fly-it piece of kit but (pun alert) more of a blank canvas for you to create your perfect kite experience. The kite's never bad by any means but after a bit of fiddling I came across a really sweet setup - it all gelled together and life was good.

Image
Adjustments - three on the LE, one at the centre T, at the tow point and at the yoyoline. Plus variable tail weight

But then the wind changed a smidge and.... it all went away again. So it was back to knot sliding to try to find The Door Into Summer* and it being about as elusive.

When the kite is together it's bloody marvellous :thumbsup: . You need to adopt a very full movements to avoid Not-Quite-There Axels and 450° Flat Spins but if you concentrate and fly it like it needs to be flown you're rewarded with textbook flight. It really is great. A big kite moving steadily (it's never a fast kite) through a trick properly makes for a happy flyer.

Then it isn't. And it's so frustrating. Not that it becomes unflyable just... where has the wonderfulness gone to and can I have it back, please ?

Image

● It's never an especially impressive Precision kite whatever I did with it.
● I preferred it almost always with the heavier (17g.) tail weight.
● 30m lines were about the shortest I could live with.
● I simply got no line snag problems, which is very welcome.
● The huge bridle is only a problem in proximity to the kitebag. :?
● You're not going to upset this frame no matter how hard you try.

Overall.... I wish I liked this kite more but finding that sweet spot and keeping it drove me up the wall. If you could spend some time with it and feed it lab. grade winds then it'd be a lot more attractive. Maybe I never did find the completely right setup. :-k

I'll send the two kites on their way in the world now. Many thanks to Challengerfor the loan of them.

Mike.
* waddyamean you haven't read it ?


Last edited by Zippy8 on Tue May 12, 2009 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:51 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 1797
Location: Barendrecht, Nederland
Post 
I am posting these thoughts here, just to tidy things up. I didn't realize there was a specific thread for this kite. :oops:

That said, there is some video.

I flew this kite on 35m lines in standard Trondelag wind (read 'crap').

On the initial build, I got annoyed with the yo-yo lines. The bridle has three legs to the LE, and has several other keeper lines...long leader-like ends, and a yo-yo line. Once I got it all straight, it was not a problem, though I wonder if this was my kite if I would keep this, or install stoppers. (I had never flown with yo-yo lines, and there might be some advantages, but my Lewis is still a work in progress. It made me wonder if the combination of stoppers and a yo-yo line was a good idea.)

As Zippy says, this is really only an issue in proximity to the kite bag. :)

Tracking is good, although what you see in the video is not. I have to say, even kites with oversteer (like my V2) are capable of straight lines and snappy corners. From my perspective, precision is a pilot choice more than a kite characteristic. However, you can get the kite to almost stop as it turns (using the push push pull French way), and this is tasty indeed. (I have been ridiculed for my not-so 'sharp turns' and 'straight lines' on FA before, so for the hardcores out there...take this comment with some seasoning.)

The kite requires rather large inputs (which for me translates to 'easier' precision flying). I am coming from the Sea Devil as a baseline. I consider the Cosmic, the SD, and the V2 (Diablis) I have to be very similar in this respect. I couldn't fly the SD very well after 30 minutes with this kite. (Same thing happens to me when I fly a Nirvana for a while :) )

This all being said, I like it. I did have trouble with flic-flacs. I occasionally found a deadspot in the flare which exited to a backflip (turtle) often. This could have to do with conditions as well, because occasionally it was just fine. Since I can flic-flac a Cosmic now, I am sure this was more my problem than then kite's.

Half axels and the cascade are big movements, but very very nice. The cascade can really float in nearly slow motion (when the wind is smooth), but if you want to do these aggressive, maybe try it's little brother. I love to transition from the cascade to the comete, but this I had loads of trouble with. (Not surprising, it's hard.)

On my second outing of the day, the backspin cascade came around. Again, not the strongest trick in my personal arsenal.

The Jacob's ladder was easy enough, although I really needed to walk backwards to pull to the fade and keep the kite from falling too much. On my field, this makes me quickly run out of room (while approaching a 7m drop), so I didn't get this on film. Again, as I mentioned elsewhere, in the second session after the rain, the JL was really tasty for me. I have been working tirelessly to get this trick humming on my other kites, so I was very pleased with this. (The V2 can do this trick so fast it's almost crazy! That's why I think I loved it on this kite so much...more time to think!)

I set out yesterday to get this kite to do a taz machine (and at times, I thought it really wanted to do it, too). In the second session, these started to flow nicely, and occasionally were really spinning 'on a pole'. Slots are also nice, but you need to give it loads of slack to get them flat (after the video, these went even better). I often got line wrapped around my hand while doing multislots, resulting in some awkward exits and crashes. I expect that would go away with a little practice, but I think this speaks to the sort of slack I was dealing with to get the rotations I wanted to see.

The kite is surprising light on the lines. And it's very well made. If I saw anything that raised my eyebrows, the nose material is not as tough as I have come to expect on kites. Certainly compared to a Sea Devil nose, it's significantly thinner (smooth dacron?). I guess this also is a minor thing, as anyone buying this kite is not a beginner. (And Paolo mentions in the 'demo tour' thread that this is actually not the case. The outer layer is not the only layer, and in this case...it's a very nice nose indeed.)

I have the general impression that the large inputs lead to very reliable trick execution, with fewer errors, and more control over timing. Thus, I do think this kite fits it's bill as a team kite, and would likely serve very well in this role. Doing synchronized flying and tricking with this kite would be cake by my estimation. Kites that trick faster of course present many more opportunities for the fliers to become out of synch, and the graceful slow tricks on this kite would almost guarantee that a competent team would look quite amazing with a pair of these.

After reading the response to my initial post from Paolo, I am curious as to what this kite would feel like on my longest line set. Too bad I don't have an appropiate location for these anymore. :(

Finally, I want to include here that I have been really working on the 2pt landing lately. This kite is great fun for these. It was even fairly easy to get a snap lazy landing coming from the top of the window, which is one my new favorite tricks.

Again, I really enjoyed flying this kite. It renewed my lust for bigger and bigger kites for sure. :)

obi

_________________
Image
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci


Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:52 am
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Forum style by STSoftware for PTF.