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Zippy8
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R-Sky Next Team and Next

Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:45 am

As someone asked here's a little comparison of two kites that R-Sky seem to have forgotten.

Image

ImageImage
Of all the "Next" kites, only the non-Team STD gets VSP (Variable Sail Profile).

ImageImage
No mylar at the base of the spine for the Next Team.

ImageImage
Reduced reinforcement across the TE for the Next Team.

However the major difference is that the Next Team has a 6cm longer spine but the odd thing (to me) is that all of this is at the nose. The following picture is with the centre-Ts held together. The bases of the spines end at the same point too.

Image

With similar wingspans (the Next is slightly wider) that means that the Next Team has a considerably lower aspect ratio. If you like Hollywood-style sales pitches; the Next is like a Matrix with a Lithium's winglets, the Next Team.... well, it's a Nirvana with winglets. (it isn't but... work with me here).

Now bear in mind that the Next Team is the LW version (that's UL to ee and thee) and the Next is the standard but... while the Next is a pitchy little sod at times, the Next Team is reluctant to roll up, even for a light kite. Both rotate just fine.

With the Next I took a while fiddling with the bridle to balance it out to "reasonable" and I like it now but initially I found it odd. The Next Team I've still got some work to put in. Some things are great - for reasons unknown it simply hands out Backspin Cascades; other far less so - it can go completely inert in a Turtle at times, just sit there looking at you and not doing bugger all.

The thing is this: if you've got a Next STD, like it and want a UL version of the same kite then the Next Team LW isn't it. It really does fly quite a bit differently.

Mike.
 
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Craig
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Re: R-Sky Next Team and Next

Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:00 pm

Zippy8 wrote:

However the major difference is that the Next Team has a 6cm longer spine but the odd thing (to me) is that all of this is at the nose. The following picture is with the centre-Ts held together. The bases of the spines end at the same point too.

Image


Not exactly a subtle update, more a complete re-design, like comparing apples and oranges. Little wonder they fly so differently.
 
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Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:05 pm

Thanks for that. :)
 
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Re: R-Sky Next Team and Next

Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Craig wrote:
Not exactly a subtle update, more a complete re-design, like comparing apples and oranges. Little wonder they fly so differently.

TBH the bottom end of the kite seems to be largely unchanged in geometry but it does beg the question: why keep the name and the sail pattern ? :-k I understand that the Next Team is a development of the Next but... I doubt that I'm the first or only person to be baffled by this.

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Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:09 am

lasapcheong wrote:
Does anybody know the specific difference between the 2 kites?

There is a thread on the R-Sky forum about this very subject.

I like the Next (non-Team, Standard wind range, with VSP) with 4½cms of reverse-turbo-ness, weight as delivered. The only change I've made is to use some bridle line to tension the wingtips and make them tight. There's enough floppiness in the sail without adding more.

The promo videos I see of the Next Up from R-Sky shows Debray doing almost everything with the Team Next Up

Yeah, well... the man's a git and we all hate him for doing that sort of thing :P

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Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:48 am

Zippy8 wrote:
lasapcheong wrote:
Does anybody know the specific difference between the 2 kites?

There is a thread on the R-Sky forum about this very subject.

I like the Next (non-Team, Standard wind range, with VSP) with 4½cms of reverse-turbo-ness, weight as delivered. The only change I've made is to use some bridle line to tension the wingtips and make them tight. There's enough floppiness in the sail without adding more.
Mike.


Thanks Mike. By any chance have you managed to Comete the Next with VSP yet? I can comete some of my other kites with some decent success (Nirvana, Opera, Widow Maker) but the damn Next is just eluding me way too much. Typically I try to work for 1 rotation down in the middle of the wind window a little bit lower than 50% to get a feel of the inputs required. I did managed to get 1 rotation but you can feel that the kite just resists the move, making multiple rotations difficult.

The new reverse bridle suggested in that R-Sky forum thread, have anybody tried it before? Might want to try that and see if it improves my Next. However is that new bridle specifically just for the Team Version only? Wondering how it will work for the Next up with VSP..

-Darryl
 
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:20 am

I have a Next with VSP and before its maiden flight I replaced the stock bridle with a 3-point (specs from Roger on the R-sky forums...somewhere). Anyway, with that configuration, I was able to comete the kite with decent success although the form of the trick wasn't very pretty. Notably, the LLEs would noticably bend and flex through the jarring part of the trick - you can also see this happening in the promo video for the Next.
 
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Ahem...

Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:21 pm

Reduced reinforcement across the TE for the Next Team.


Image

Witness the Team Next Up Standard. On both the Nirvana and Team Next series the LW version comes with the lesser mylar reinforcement around the standoffs.

A few comments just for giggles:

1. I wouldn't compare the Next Up to any version of the Team Next Up. I mean you could but wouldn't glean much. I think you realized that. :lol:

2. Both the Team Next Up Standard and LW roll up just fine. I've got a video somewhere. ;-)

3. Three point is the way to go on these kites. I've modded mine a bit, starting with the LW. Shortened the inhaul a tad, IIRC.

4. The kite, all Team versions, loves the Comete, Slot Machine, Slot Cascade, and BS Cascade. Taz not so much.

5. Both the Team Next Up with VSP and without comete very nicely. All of mine are framed with Icone so that might be the difference. No noticeable LE flex outside what one would expect with such an aggressive trick.

6. I should say I only owned a Team Next (white version) for a brief time.

Of course, YMMV.
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Re: Ahem...

Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:24 pm

randyg wrote:
the LW version comes with the lesser mylar reinforcement around the standoffs.

Now that's a weight saving worth making :disgusted:

2. Both the Team Next Up Standard and LW roll up just fine.

I've just added 3g. to the tail of the Next Team LW. Three grammes !!1!! And it rolls up like a terrified hedgehog. I dare say that different/better technique would remove the need to add anything.

I'll probably reduce it to to 2½g. later on. :P

3. Three point is the way to go on these kites. I've modded mine a bit, starting with the LW.

I've tried (briefly) Malte's reverse-turbo but TBH I'll stick with the original factory settings to begin with. I am aware that there are options already tried and tested.

5. Both the Team Next Up with VSP....comete very nicely.

I can't get the Next (w/ VSP) to cométe tidily with much repeatability. Doing it; yes. Prettily; no.

6. I should say I only owned a Team Next (white version) for a brief time.

And that you are an R-Sky sponsored flyer. :-D

Mike.
 
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Re: Ahem...

Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:15 pm

Zippy8 wrote:

6. I should say I only owned a Team Next (white version) for a brief time.

And that you are an R-Sky sponsored flyer. :-D

Mike.


Don't be harsh on him Mike, He's only toeing the company line. None of the other factory pilots (RD included) fly the Next or the Manga and Extends for that matter unless they are trying to push sales.
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Re: Ahem...

Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:21 pm

randyg wrote:
6. I should say I only owned a Team Next (white version) for a brief time.


Why what happened? You only borrow the kites from R-sky as sponsored flyer? Or you sold it?
 
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Re: Ahem...

Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 am

711jrp wrote:
Don't be harsh on him Mike, He's only toeing the company line.

No company line that I'm aware of. I didn't think Mike was being harsh. Any reason you think he should be?

SPECIAL NOTE: THE WORDS BELOW WERE WRITTEN BY RANDYG AND NOT ANY SORT OF R-SKY CONSPIRACY TO INDUCE UNSUSPECTING PILOTS TO BUY THEIR KITES.

randyg wrote:
the LW version comes with the lesser mylar reinforcement around the standoffs.
Now that's a weight saving worth making :disgusted:


I don't know if the objective was weight savings or simply that a UL is normally abused less than a typical standard wind kite and requires less reinforcement. I've a bunch of hours on several R-Sky LW kites without any problem.

I dare say that different/better technique would remove the need to add anything.

+1

Too bad more pilots don't think that way, at least as far as working on their techinque.

I can't get the Next (w/ VSP) to cométe tidily with much repeatability. Doing it; yes. Prettily; no.

See number 1 above. :P My Team Next Up with VSP does a nice Comete as does the version w/o VSP. But, maybe my Comete QA standards are low!? I can't really recall the Comete on the original Next Up as it wasn't a core competency for me at the time. :?

And that you are an R-Sky sponsored flyer. :-D

I honestly never thought I'd be ostracized for it. :rolleyes:
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Re: Ahem...

Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:12 am

randyg wrote:
I didn't think Mike was being harsh. Any reason you think he should be?

Hopefully I wasn't. It's just that I prefer the whole "full disclosure up front" approach to avoid any unpleasantness later. Maybe one for the .sig Randy ? :wink:

Too bad more pilots don't think that way, at least as far as working on their technique.

TBH I did try as many approaches as I can think up but it wasn't helping to any extent. I damn near dislocated my shoulders at one point. I TRIED !!!!! :evil: The Next Team LW really does seem to appreciate a sliver more weight.

My Team Next Up with VSP

Eh ?!?!? There's a Next Team with VSP as well. That wasn't commercially available, was it ?

Mike.
 
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Re: Ahem...

Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:26 am

randyg wrote:

And that you are an R-Sky sponsored flyer. :-D

I honestly never thought I'd be ostracized for it. :rolleyes:



Your not Randy, just that you are the only R-Sky representative to contribute, your insights are always welcome :D

FWIW. I bought an original Icone Next and didn't like it at all (got rid of it quickly), but did enjoy the Team version, not enough to buy one however.

The kite came across to me as a bit of a stop gap until Roger could think of something better to make, the fact that Debray didn't fly it in competition certainly didn't help.
 
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Re: Ahem...

Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:43 pm

My Team Next Up with VSP

Eh ?!?!? There's a Next Team with VSP as well. That wasn't commercially available, was it ?

I think a couple of pilots got one but I do believe it was pre-Team version production. My set without VSP are quite different with longer spines.

Here is the version with VSP:

Image

Thanks for that Craig.:-) In hindsight I'd probably not have typed that little statement but I was probably having a bad day or something. :?
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