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KaoS
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:34 am

Ooh, you did that quick!

I worked this up earlier in Corel Draw, you might want to compare dimensions.

Image

Did the kite already have standoffs? Or did you add them? I suspect the outer ones need to be really thin fibreglass - approx 1.5mm diameter. They should only twist the wingtip back very slightly.

To get your kite looking the same from front on, the inner standoffs might need to be a bit shorter, that way the keel will be slightly wider.

Or, if you are happy with the way it is flying now - leave it alone and enjoy it like it is! :D

Hope this helps
Kevin Sanders

Willunga
South Australia
 
tommyb23
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:19 pm

Wow that's cool Kaos. well done! and thank you.

When I got my hands on this kite it was just the sail , spine rod , 2 nose-to-wingtip rods (the sail and (frame?) is it? ) oh and 1 upper spreader connector.
I lucky had a cheap single line diamond kite I bought for my daughter. which has a spreader of 1.5mm , used that for outer standoffs the inner one are 3mm . the rest of the parts come from gowd knows what old kite I got a bunch of random mismatched rods and connectors from the same guy who gave me the hat trick with a few old sails, all have some damage like holes or tears. the hatrick was the only sail which wasn't damaged and was more complete than the others. but there is this one sail with only a small hole looks fixable, it's a Rhombus Blue Team. looks really good but I don't have long enough LE rods even to start with looks massive wingspan this one.

I can't actually tell if it's "ripping" like it should in the air. Im totally new and addicted to stunt kites. I've in my life only flown 2 kites , my first has a model name "Leisure" 122cm wingspan. had an awesome time learning with this one , inexpensive small and proper. my second is this hat-trick. which feels totally different but I can see the potential for tricks with this type.

maybe ill use my go pro and record a little clip of it flying. all I can do atm is spin well and fly my way around the window doing punch turn squares and so on. got my sights on side slide next...

again thanks Kaos Im still going to work at getting the hat-trick better and stronger.. btw the kite flies very quietly , Im guessing that's a good thing.
PS: Craig mentioned LE's . What's that?

Edit : Leading edge. ill keep in mind when next working on it. thumbs up!
 
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Ian Newham
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:23 am

tommyb23 wrote:
I'm having difficulties here...
with longer upper spreader I can get the rub patch inline. but then the wingspan goes well over 215cm??
...


The APA connectors won't help - on fittings used at the time the spreader joined at the top of the connector whereas APAs come off the bottom. You need to move the connectors up 10mm or so when changing from old connectors to APAs - that will get the spreader in the middle of the rub patch.

They had their own plastics moulding gear and I have a vague recollection they might have made their own connectors so you won't get originals now.

Air-Crafts used to make nice smooth flying kites 8)
 
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:35 am

Hi
I went out to fly this am. was great kite flies very well from a beginners perspective anyway,
Firstly according to the sketch from KaoS , both my spreaders fall +/- 10cm short. upper being 58cm lower 151cm
So Craig saying the leading edge should be tighter and curved , he's right. makes sense
probably why when I fit a longer upper the current lower pop out.
as was also metioned shorter stand offs likely needed

well it's gonna take some time for me to get more rods. but I have a much better understanding of how this kite is setup. thanks guys

quick question, is the kite supposed to want to fly strait over my head when just holding neutral after take off?
 
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:15 pm

Hey Kaos,
please be so kind as to explain how you got the measurements for the spreaders in Corel draw. my lower ones are close enough to 160cm but upper one, there's just no way a 70cm bar will fit. ive got a 57cm bar and its TIGHT .
never the less your post helped a lot, thank you. ill stick up some pics just now.
 
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KaoS
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:13 pm

tommyb23 wrote:
Hey Kaos,
please be so kind as to explain how you got the measurements for the spreaders in Corel draw. my lower ones are close enough to 160cm but upper one, there's just no way a 70cm bar will fit. ive got a 57cm bar and its TIGHT .
never the less your post helped a lot, thank you. ill stick up some pics just now.


I copied the photo from the PDF file of the brochure, then imported it into Corel Draw. Then I scaled it to 1/10th of actual kite size, based on a wingspan of 215cm. Using the Parallel Dimension tool I measured between the ends of the spreaders.

This all assumed that the photo was an accurate front on image of the kite.

The length of the upper spreader is dependent on the location of the connectors on the leading edges. Nearer the nose will require a shorter length spreader, further from the nose will require a longer one.. I have re-done the image to show the calculated length of the spine, and the various distances between the nose and tail where the spreaders cross the spine. If these don't match your kite, then unfortunately the photo can't be used as an accurate template :-(

Image
Kevin Sanders



Willunga

South Australia
 
tommyb23
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:17 pm

Hi.
only checked your reply now!. I've had no internet connection for some time.....

Impressive Kaos . U must design and build kites , no??

what's strange for me is my lower spreaders match the measurement in your diagram but upper one falls like 10cm short. anycase im having a great time flying with it. as mentioned I lack experience as a pilot, but basic flight is good eg. punch turn squares seem sharp and I can get straight lines between the turns. I've pulled off a few dodgy axels. just can't get a good slide yet. but that's more likely me than the kite.

Here's how its taking shape.
Image
Image
Image

note: still under development, I feel like there's too much..... whats the word..... slack? in the sail, mid to nose section. gonna perhaps stretch out the leading edges more with longer upper spreader. + shorten inner standoffs with likely outer standoff adj needed.
 
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KaoS
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:53 am

tommyb23 wrote:
Hi.
only checked your reply now!. I've had no internet connection for some time.....

Impressive Kaos . U must design and build kites , no??

what's strange for me is my lower spreaders match the measurement in your diagram but upper one falls like 10cm short. anycase im having a great time flying with it. as mentioned I lack experience as a pilot, but basic flight is good eg. punch turn squares seem sharp and I can get straight lines between the turns. I've pulled off a few dodgy axels. just can't get a good slide yet. but that's more likely me than the kite.

Here's how its taking shape.


Looking really good - very close to the shape in the brochure picture! Your "suck it and see" approach seems to be working really well. It's a shame no-one here has another Hat Trick to measure and compare with.


tommyb23 wrote:
note: still under development, I feel like there's too much..... whats the word..... slack? in the sail, mid to nose section. gonna perhaps stretch out the leading edges more with longer upper spreader. + shorten inner standoffs with likely outer standoff adj needed.


Sound reasoning! Good luck.
Kevin Sanders



Willunga

South Australia
 
tommyb23
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:09 am

here, this morning went out with longer upper spreader +- 64cm. and about 1cm shorter inner stands.
fly's better each time.
Ja much pitty that there's not another HatTrick to compare.
wow what a find this was. here in Somerset West, Western Cape, South Africa.! where btw I believe the sport kite scene is little known rather than dead.
haha im gonna leave it at that and see how long the sail lasts what with being so old n all.

Image
Image
Image


Thank all for contributing . take the greatness in what you do ! thumbs up!!

PS: should I start a new thread :~ Id like to know if any info on a Rhombus BlueTeam. Iv also got just the sail. wondering if its worth building up rather than making a wind sock out of it. :)
 
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misterbleepy
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:58 am

Looks good with the sail tauter - good job
Keith B
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Bill Lancashire
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:36 pm

I'm still in contact with Neil, the original owner of the company. Will ask him if he still has the contruction information on that kite.
"You don't need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows." - Bob Dylan.
 
tommyb23
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:09 pm

Bill Lancashire wrote:
I'm still in contact with Neil, the original owner of the company. Will ask him if he still has the contruction information on that kite.

Wow that would be incredible. no really.. I'm amazed...
 
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KaoS
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:50 am

Wow! You have that looking really sweet. Well done =D>

I nearly got to Somerset West back in 2004! We flew with for Cape Mental Health Society with the kids in Khayelitsha. Had a great time!
Kevin Sanders



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tommyb23
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:38 am

Here's a little video just so you guys can actually see it in action, since your inputs helped me achieve this...
Hope you all can enjoy the beginner'ness in this clip. haha some weak attempts at side slide, dodgy axles from spin stall (I have since learned to axle from a snap stall rather) and a rather good looking pancake or flare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhDlc7uzf90
cheers
 
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KaoS
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Re: Air-Crafts Kite restoration

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:52 am

tommyb23 wrote:
haha some weak attempts at side slide, dodgy axles from spin stall


Looking very good!

Those attempts aren't because of your "beginner'ness", the bridle is the main reason for that behaviour in your kite. The speed and small radius of the tight spin turns indicate that the towpoints on your bridle are too close to the spine. They need to be further apart.

Bridle tuning can be a time consuming exercise, BUT it is very rewarding when you find a good setting. Download this PDF for a simple and logical way to find a good bridle setting.

http://www.ozfeathers.com.au/kaos/downloads/Bridling.pdf

PLEASE NOTE: I have exaggerated the amount of adjustment from the starting point in the document photos. Make small changes (1 cm) each time you alter the bridle

I hope this helps
Kevin Sanders



Willunga

South Australia