Fractured Axel

Hi,

I am now almost decided on the colour combination I will use for my Le Quartz and will be ready sto buy material and start building.
I will be using the more complex rectilinear pattern: http://www.kiteplans.org/planos/quartz/quartz.html
I have a few questions that may affect the build:

1. If I have two panel that are contiguous and that will have the same colour, can I just cut one single piece that has the shape of the two panels together or do I have to cut the two separate panels and then sew them together? (Note: the colour pattern will be symmetrical on both sides so the avoidance or addition of a seam will be the same on both sides).
My doubt is whether this can affect the final 3D shape of the sail once it is framed, tensed and given volume by the stand-offs.

2. If I decide to make some panels transparent with mylar, will this be OK or should I avoid mylar? I have seen many kites use some transparent mylar panels but I'm not sure whether it is more difficult to work with mylar than with Icarex.

3. When cutting the panels should I really user the soldering iron or can I use a pair of scissors? I used scissors for cutting the panels of my Standard Conyne and it worked well...

4. The build description (http://www.tweelijners.com/tom/tomskitesite-en/KBS1.html) just says things like:
"leading edges: Carbon hollow 6 mm - length 1,5 m of 1,6 m"
Is this Sky Shark P200 or 300?
And what about the spine:
"spine: Carbon hollow 6 mm - length 1,5 m of 1,6 m"
It says the same as for the LE but I understand the spine has to be conical while the leading edges aren't. Am I wrong?
So here should it be Sky Shark 5PT?
And what about the Lower Spreaders which do say PT5?
I'm a bit confused with the framing...

Thanks

carbon hollow is just normal CF tube 6mm, most common is EXEL
in pdf files here http://www.tweelijners.com/tom/tomskite ... /Plan.html
you got right lengths of spine and ULE, LLE
only skyshark is 2xLS and etc.

good luck i`ve build lequartz all in Exel 6mm but spreaders broke in first flight that`s why there should be Skyshark 5PT.

where you ordering materials??? i might help u more knowing the shop.

Hi Pink,

Thanks. I was thinking on buying the materials at my local shop in Barcelona unless I see there is a huge price difference with some on-line shop that is relatively close to Barcelona such that the cost does not increase the price unreasonably. Or in case my shop cannot provide me some of the parts. Do you have any suggestions? (PM me if so).

Now, thanks for making me notice the link. I had been there before but I had missed the PDF with the parts list.
Now, if I understand well, what you mean is that from the spars list:

Spars Carbon hollow 6 mm 1,5 or 1,6 m 3 pcs leading edges, spine, upper spreader
Carbon full 3 mm 1,5 or 1,6 m 1 pc stand]offs
Carbon cone Sky Shark 5PT 2 pcs lower spreaders
Ferrule Sky Shark P]PT 1 pc/length 93 mm lower spreaders

All the spars that say "Carbon hollow 6 mm 1,5 or 1,6 m" should actually be Skyshark 5PT. But Skyshark 5PT spars are only 825mm while the LE are 1355mm
So how should I create the LE?
Upper LE 825mm & Lower LE 530mm ?
If so how do I cut the spars. They should always be cut from the narrowest side, right?

Thanks

no ombre, carbon hollow is what we call here standard cheap CF most common in uk Exel or Structil
http://www.ventilador.com/Productos.asp ... 175&vCat=6
http://www.bilboquet.com/fabrics-and-sp ... uc287.html


have look here:
http://pinkflood.uphero.com/kites.html
there is a few tips i got from PRO-Kite Builder he is also selling me parts and materials in best quality.


i` am always trying to get all stuff in one go to save on delivery.

As Pink says, most of the frame is made from plain 'pultruded' 6mm carbon fibre tube - you can get this commonly in 1.5 or 1.6m lengths - I have used carbon from Decathlon for some of my other kites, it is quite cheap and pretty good quality. For the leading edges - if you don't need to fold the kite down for traveling I would make the leading edges from one piece of 6mm carbon as this will be strongest - 2 piece LE's can break. If you need to make it 2 piece then make it from one longer piece and one shorter piece - how long and short depends on where the LE fittings need to go. Don't make the 2 pieces the same length as this will put the weak point where the ferrule joint is in the place of highest stress and it will break more easily. The lower spreader are Skyshark 5PT tapered spars - always cut from the small end - use a razor saw, a sharp NEW junior hacksaw or Dremel tool.

Decathlon also sell a small range of other kite parts.

just before you start cutting skyshark be sure you can do it properly, is better to be left with to long than with to short tube, this is serious advice .

pink wrote:

no ombre, carbon hollow is what we call here standard cheap CF most common in uk Exel or Structil

Sorry Pink, I'm lost

I understand that carbon hollow is the cheaper type of tubes.
So that, if I understand what you said two comments before,

good luck i`ve build lequartz all in Exel 6mm but spreaders broke in first flight that`s why there should be Skyshark 5PT

I should NOT be using these. Am I right?
I should subtitute these for 5PT spars.
Correct?

So the final list of spars should be:

Spars Sky Shark 5PT 4 spars for leading edges, 1 spar for spine,
Carbon hollow 6 mm 1 spar for upper spreader (6mm! isn't this too much for an upper spreader?)
Carbon full 3 mm 1,5 or 1,6 m 1 pc stand-offs
Carbon cone Sky Shark 5PT 2 pcs lower spreaders
Ferrule Sky Shark P]PT 1 pc/length 93 mm lower spreaders

Is this correct?

Sorry if I'm a bit slow at understanding all this.
Thanks

no worries man, 6mm CF is common for LE in many kites is not crap is cheap and good.
hi-spec kites use better stright Skyshark.... P-series tubes such P90/P100/P200/P400
PT-series are common for LS but different kites different ideas you will get there soon, but main thing is about having fun flying and building to.
http://www.skyburner.com/skyshark/ss-products.html#001

final list should be
2x 5PT LS
4xCF 6mm LE or 2xCF 6mm if you go for one pice LE
1xCF 6mm spine
1xCF 6mm US
4xCF solid rod standoff

LS/Lower Spreader,
LE/Leading Edge,
US/Upper Spreader,
spine,standoff`s

in online shops is better to give lenghts below 1000mm delivery is cheap, that`s why i will go for 2 piece LE.

ordering CF tube always give length you need + few cm and ask for proper packaging.

Ara Ararauna wrote:

I should NOT be using these. Am I right?
I should subtitute these for 5PT spars.
Correct?

Pultruded 6mm tube is pretty much standard for a regular sized stunt kite. It's cheap, strong and good enough. However, in some cases it isn't quite strong enough, for example at the lower spreaders. It can be had in pretty much any length you want Exel (a Finnish company) made several reels of the stuff for an oil platform prototype. so you can use a single length for the 1.65cm leading edges.

A 6mm upper spreader is perfectly normal too.

You should end up with a kite framed mostly in 6mm tube except for the lower spreaders.

Mike.

OK thanks a lot.
I think I got it now.
Pinks comment was only referring to the LS.
Great.
I will start getting the material.

Concerning my other initial questions can anyone guide me please?

1. If I have two panel that are contiguous and that will have the same colour, can I just cut one single piece that has the shape of the two panels together or do I have to cut the two separate panels and then sew them together? (Note: the colour pattern will be symmetrical on both sides so the avoidance or addition of a seam will be the same on both sides).
My doubt is whether this can affect the final 3D shape of the sail once it is framed, tensed and given volume by the stand-offs.

2. If I decide to make some panels transparent with mylar, will this be OK or should I avoid mylar? I have seen many kites use some transparent mylar panels but I'm not sure whether it is more difficult to work with mylar than with Icarex.

3. When cutting the panels should I really user the soldering iron or can I use a pair of scissors? I used scissors for cutting the panels of my Standard Conyne and it worked well...

Thanks!

main thing`s about mylar:
is strong but not that flexible like Icarex,
you could use 2 layers mylar/icarex in standoff/tail/nose area
mylar only i will use for decoration in main areas of sail where is little stress.

have look on other kites to have an idea what goes where and why.

honestly, you can give up with mylar and use two layers of icarex instead.

Although I haven't built kites myself, I understand that you are supposed to cut the sail material so that the grid pattern on the leading edge panels runs parallel with the leading edge and spine panel(s) are parallel with the spine to reduce stretching. Having said that, Fearless kites are made from 2 complete panels one for each side of the kite.

Sail material is usually cut with a hot knife ( or soldering iron) to seal the edges.

Check this out -http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=5377.0

I would follow the plan in and just use 2 panels and sew them together in order to follw the grid pattern. In most cases the direction of the grid is indicated of the panels itself in the plan.

I've never used a soldering iron to hotcut icarex on my builds. I just use a hobby knife or scalpel to cut the fabric. Never had any fraying on the panel edges... not even after years of usage.

Very corious about the results of your build. I love the original straight panel layout. The laout used in Tom's site is a simpified version of that.
Have been flying my Le Quartz on saturday and still love the way this kite flies.

My thoughts are similar to others. I built the version on tom's website as my first build a number of years ago. I intend to actually build a new sail, recycling the pultruded carbon frame and bridle. (New build due to my supply of better materials and much improved skills... With desire to have a newer pattern that isn't the simplified version.

Even if you have adjacent panels that are the same color, I would still cut the individual panels and sew them... For proper layout of the bias, but also keeping in mind the aesthetic and structure of how those seams contribute to a design. For framing, I would stick with 6 mm pultruded carbon in the leading edges, spine and upper spreader, while using skyshark 5pt spreaders. This setup is actually pretty bomb proof (I've yet to damage mind and I am pretty prone to having my kite hit the ground...). If I were making attempts to improve the frame, I'd look at using skyshark p200 in the leading edge and spine while maintaining the 5pt lower spreaders and 6mm pultruded carbon upper spreader. The nice thing about using skyshark in the leading edge (beyond the performance) is that you would use internal ferrules creating a smoother leading edge (unless you make a single piece 6mm leading edge with pultruded carbon)

Really what it comes down to is that le quartz is a great, versatile kite. I would build it exactly in accordance with tom's website instructions (with exception of using the panel layout you prefer) since it is your first sport kite build. The results will be rewarding and you'll likely be addicted to kite building... Then you can move on to build a b'zar, invictus, sixth sense, p2, vortex, l'quartz and so on.

Have fun and keep us posted on your progress.

Thanks a lot guys.
I am really motivated. Today I went to my local store to make sure they will have all the materials.
They told me they recommended using structil carbon tubes as opposed to the more regular, but each tube 1600mm goes up from 8€ to 14€ and when you start adding these differences end up being very noticeable in the final cost.
Do you think it is worth it?

Sugarbaker, if you want to use the more complex rectiliniar pattern it is the one that appears in my new colouriser, so you can use it to decide your layout
http://www.dtic.upf.edu/~npares/tmp/KiteColorizer/index.html

I have almost decided my combo but I will not show it to you all until it is built

The other doubt I have is about the nose. The plan says to use an old safety belt or sports bag...
Where do I get this from...?

Cheers