Fractured Axel

First post. Hi, & thanks for this forum - as a newbie its been great for seeing what's possible, and for getting an idea of how to go about improving.

Have been making reasonable progress (from rubbish to just a bit less rubbish) over these past few months but am really stuck on this pancake to fade thing.

The kite does its pancake malarkey no bother, but then pulling the lines just accelerates the kite groundwards in a nose dive. Spent 2 hours trying it at the beach today with some old dear looking on with a bemused face, clearly not impressed with the variety in my flying.

Looks annoyingly easy in the videos... any hints? The tutorials all say 'just' pull evenly with both lines. Tried that. Doesn't work.

Someone here will be more than willing to give you advice but the first thing they'll ask is...

What kite you flying?

I'm hardly the one to offer advice, but are you giving slack as soon as the kite starts coming back from the pancake?

Stuart B has it - you need slack after the pull to avoid the lawn-dart. Practice the exact same move from the ground - belly down, nose away and lines under the kite. Then pull-slack-catch to get to a fade. Without the slack you will get the fite popping up and the nosing into the turf - but because you started on the ground this will be less serious for the health of your kite. A little while back I made a little animation for this move... Maybe it helps (I thought it was great at the time, but now it looks a bit pants).



I did a similar thing to explain "tending" a fade:



HTH.

Spineless wrote:

The tutorials all say 'just' pull evenly with both lines. Tried that. Doesn't work.

.. and try stepping forward at the same time.

Benjai... you've *faarr* to much spare time.. but good job

You could describe the pull from the pancake as a "pop" - a quick yank then throw your hands forward (not too far forward, but it won't hurt to overdo it in order to get the feel for it). Flick your wrists back and then forward. Once you see the kite getting to something like a fade then it's just practise to get the timing and tension right in order to not over/undershoot it and to stay in the fade. It sounds like you're undershooting it - too much tension too early returns the kite to "normal" position - pointing at the ground Definitely try from the ground first as suggested!

Finklius Munkum wrote:

You could describe the pull from the pancake as a "pop"

Hmm, I don't think it is ever a "pop"; it is a smoothly accellerating pull followed by slack to anticipate catching the kite: if the kite is going into flight after the flare, you are pulling too hard, for too long. Keep at it, it takes a while to grasp what slack really is, but you'll get it soon enough. Practice your stalls to get a feel for a slacked kite. Welcome

try it from the ground... land the kite in a flare and gently let the kite
come up just a bit, then try the same move...
if you can get it to fade then it will be easier in the air


oh... just remembered....

you dont pull the kite in a fade... you just initiate a rotation and let the wind and inertion do the work

StuartB wrote:

I'm hardly the one to offer advice, but are you giving slack as soon as the kite starts coming back from the pancake?

Ahhhh. Give slack rather than just yanking and yanking: I never tried that. It even seems to make some kind of logical sense - thanks a lot. And to others for the animations/ suggestions.

Stink_Finger wrote:

Someone here will be more than willing to give you advice but the first thing they'll ask is...

What kite you flying?

Did a "Best kite for beginner" search in google and bought an E3, mainly for the video that came with it (which turned out to be cheesy to say the least). My main aim was to know that the kite wasn't to blame for my incompetence - Only LATER did I find this forum where the general view seems to be that Prism are to blame for everything - probably my incompetence included.

Dare I say that Dodd Gross's "Flight School" is a really good DVD to be starting with?

I really struggled with my gem to get from the flare to fade (still do), she needs a gentle pull, not a yank, followed by slack.
I was used to a Psycho that you just flare, bang in a pop followed by slack

I have the Dodd Gross DVD if you are intrested just send me a pm

Only LATER did I find this forum where the general view seems to be that Prism are to blame for everything - probably my incompetence included.

Prisms are great kites... its only freaks like us that notice (or complain about) the problems
your E2 will do about any trick you can learn the next few years... its just that we like other kites better and remember the time where prism was among the best... then one day... (about the time they came with the illusion2K) all that good went missing and it became just another american kitemanufacturer... producing in china...

If you are looking for some first rate tutorials on tricks for dual line sport kites. Try this: http://sportkiteflyer.spaces.live.com/

but then pulling the lines just accelerates the kite groundwards in a nose dive.

Also don't forget if you have a STD kite keep in the 4 -10 Mph wind range.
You will find the lighter the wind the easier this will get.

Remember none of those videos show this trick being done in strong winds with a standard kite!

I finally got a chance to put these (very kind) suggestions into practice this evening and was really happy with the results.... got into a fade at the second or third attempt, and after an hour or so I was getting them a reasonable % of the time.

I think that as well as not giving slack after pulling the nose forwards I was probably over-doing the flare thing - I was surprised by how gentle the whole thing could be. Or is that just because the wind was lightish?

I wasn't able to hold the fade for long before the nose got away from me (only managed to get out with nose pointed upwards once - and even then I was mightily surprised that kite did its 180° spin in opposite direction to the hand I pulled).

Anyways, being able to get into a fade is surely the best start towards getting better at holding one, so thank you all for the help.