I would think that part of it is the frames. The standard Next would transfer more of the input into motion. The UL framed Team Next would flex more and generate less drive from the same input.
My standard and UL Widow Makers are like that. The standard almost rotates around the lower spreader. The UL does big loops. Just the opposite of the Vendettas. The UL does tighter pitch moves than the standard.
Denny
Fractured Axel
Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum
Moderators: Craig, Andy S, Jason
-
- Infinitive
- Posts: 1099
- Joined:
- Location: Bristol
-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
DWayne wrote:I would think that part of it is the frames... The UL framed Team Next would flex more and generate less drive from the same input.
My Next Team LW is the Icone version
. I don't think it loses too much to the SkyShark-equipped Next. There's no sense of it flexing too much. Low overall mass may be the issue but I doubt rigidity is.
I may edit the video I have and post it. Then again... I may not
Mike.
-
- Jason_01
- Posts: 64
- Joined:
- Location: Birmingham
Re: Yoyos - the ways kites do them
Zippy8 wrote:Having recently snagged Andy Phelp's old Next Team Light (daylight robbery) I'd like to discuss the two paths that kites seem to be able to take in performing a Yoyo. Dunno if I actually have a point with this but it's been something that's been bothering me all week.
Exhibit A is the original Next, standard wind range:
It rotates about a point close to the kite itself and the whole kite spins about. It's quick, tight and the lines hook up to the stoppers reliably.
Exhibit B is the Team version, for light winds:
Try as I might (and I have been trying) all I get out of it is a wholly different experience. The centre of rotation is waaaaay distant from the kite and the trajectory is a wide arc that it glides around. It takes a good long time, takes plenty of room and is an absolute pig to reliably hit the stoppers as the lines have plenty of room and time to get lost.
The same sort of thing can be seen with the QPro - fitted with no weight it's solidly in Group B, slap in the (optional) weight kit and it joins in with the far preferable Group A. Of course other stuff gets messed up in the process but that's why it's an option. Is it merely a question of overall mass ? Mass distribution (the Team Light is tail weighted) ? Pixies ?
Mike.
Now Im really confused.
Are those arrows pointing the right way? Does the kite nose rotate away from the flier in a yoyo? Ive been doing it the other way
Rotate nose towards me then unwind in the direction of those red arrows!-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
Re: Yoyos - the ways kites do them
Jason_01 wrote:Now I'm really confused.
You're welcome
Let us all "enjoy" a short video clip to thoroughly depict what's actually going on. (.WMV, 1280x720, 50fps, 7seconds, 4.12Mb)
As far as I can make out
the real difference is once the kites have fully flipped over 180°. From there the Next tucks under and completes the Yoyo but the Next Team sort of glides on, taking its good time and space. I think that if I persevere I'll get it but it's a major pain at the moment.
The reason ? I'm leaning towards aero. drag overcoming inertia in the lighter kite but I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise.
Mike.
-
- ObijuanKenobe
- Posts: 1799
- Joined:
- Location: Barendrecht, Nederland
- Contact:
-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
ObijuanKenobe wrote:The difference does seem pretty subtle, at least in a yoyo take off.
Enough to be a pain
. Believe me, my success rate with the Next Team is pitiful, with the Next it's automatic (SET Tempt Fate = ON)
It seems like the lighter kite is just running out of steam part way through the move. I may try a suggestion of a hint of a soupçon more weight or one of the multiple other bridles that exist to see if this helps.
Mike.
-
- Jason_01
- Posts: 64
- Joined:
- Location: Birmingham
Thanks, the slow mo video does make it very clear indeed. All this time I thought Id been doing yo yo's Ive been doing something else entirely, a reverse yo yo. I guess thats what happens when you fly in isolation!
Hmmm, I thought nose rotating away from me was a back flip or something, ahh well you live and learn, all good fun
Think I need help!
Hmmm, I thought nose rotating away from me was a back flip or something, ahh well you live and learn, all good fun
Think I need help!-
- Zippy8
- Posts: 4865
- Joined:
- Location: Vihtavuori, Finland
- Contact:
Jason_01 wrote:All this time I thought Id been doing yo yo's Ive been doing something else entirely, a reverse yo yo.
Either way is still a Yoyo. Backflip (via a Turtle) is what you see in the photos and videos. If the kite is upright (as in the photos) and pulled forwards to wrap up then you are doing something usually considered more difficult.
Mike.
-
- ObijuanKenobe
- Posts: 1799
- Joined:
- Location: Barendrecht, Nederland
- Contact:
I hate to beat a dead horse, but nearly 100% of yoyo's seen are those where the kite rotates in the direction depicted in the above photos, or in the video posted.
I would love to be corrected, but IMHO rotating the kite around the inside (where the spreaders are) only occurs in a yo-fade style wrap.
@Jason01...what you are doing is a likely a 'down-yo'...wrapping directly out of a fade position. There, the kite is doing exactly the same thing, but in the down direction, rather than in the up direction.
obi
I would love to be corrected, but IMHO rotating the kite around the inside (where the spreaders are) only occurs in a yo-fade style wrap.
@Jason01...what you are doing is a likely a 'down-yo'...wrapping directly out of a fade position. There, the kite is doing exactly the same thing, but in the down direction, rather than in the up direction.
obi
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
-
- Jason_01
- Posts: 64
- Joined:
- Location: Birmingham
Zippy8 wrote:Jason_01 wrote:All this time I thought Id been doing yo yo's Ive been doing something else entirely, a reverse yo yo.
Either way is still a Yoyo. Backflip (via a Turtle) is what you see in the photos and videos. If the kite is upright (as in the photos) and pulled forwards to wrap up then you are doing something usually considered more difficult.
Mike.
Ahhh ok, thats a relief
Thanks for the explanation!-
- tunemx
- Posts: 389
- Joined:
- Contact:
can we put a spreadsheet like something together?
I can state that the Transfer xtr is group B. With weight in the tail it's still group B
I can state that the Transfer xtr is group B. With weight in the tail it's still group B
Code: Select all
| |group A|group B|
|Next | x | |
|Next Team | | x |
|Transfer xtr | | x |
tunemx
http://kiteaddict.hu
http://kiteaddict.hu