Fractured Axel

mobius wrote:

Thomas,

I'd recommend sticking to what you are doing with just one pop for now. To begin with additional pops will just complicate things.

My tip for you, which most seem to overlook, is rather than thinking about what your hands are doing.. think about what your feet are doing.

In no wind you will be walking backwards, in light wind stood still, in standard wind walking forward slowly and in strong wind walking forward briskly.

Correct ground movement will significantly improve the quality of this trick without having to change the hand movements you've got working already.

Once mastered with the one pop.. I would then add an additional pop which, for me, is used to improve the success rate of each individual axel.

Thanks for the tip, Dave. Remembering my footwork made my yo-yo hit rate improve dramaticly.

I find the more you let the wing which will be popped fall back (go away from you) before you pop it, the flatter the axel.
Practice stalling the kite nose up and doing push pull movements with your hands alternately, left right left right, using your footwork to keep the kite stalled but rocking from side to side. The kite should feel like a car on a skid-pan and the steering will probably feel reversed.
Try popping the axel at the extreme of one of these rocking movements. The position the kite is in then is the one you are looking for the kite to get into as it completes each axel during a cascade. Practicing the stalled movements above will give you the feel for doing this.
Once you've got the feel of it you can vary your axels as you wish; starting with the nose facing to the side gives a half axel each time, start with the nose up for a full axel etc.
Hope that made sense. Too much coffee...

Bodyflight wrote:

I find the more you let the wing which will be popped fall back (go away from you) before you pop it, the flatter the axel.
Practice stalling the kite nose up and doing push pull movements with your hands alternately, left right left right, using your footwork to keep the kite stalled but rocking from side to side. The kite should feel like a car on a skid-pan and the steering will probably feel reversed.
Try popping the axel at the extreme of one of these rocking movements. The position the kite is in then is the one you are looking for the kite to get into as it completes each axel during a cascade. Practicing the stalled movements above will give you the feel for doing this.
Once you've got the feel of it you can vary your axels as you wish; starting with the nose facing to the side gives a half axel each time, start with the nose up for a full axel etc.
Hope that made sense. Too much coffee...

Thanks, it makes perfectly sense!

Look forward to try it out, hopefully the weekend will give an opportunity to fly, but my chances for time off are slim. Hmmm

Following your advice and watching RandyG video more closely has helped a lot. Now the cascade is there!

Looking back I realize that I did not give a sufficient quick pull and then slack to the top wing in the start of the trick. Now I am, and the kite goes in a perfect pankake and a little pop is needed to lift the other wing and complete the rotation. It surprises me hos quick all the moves has to be made after each other in order to keep the rythm.

I find the trick easier to perform in lower winds, but the kite looses altitude very quickly then.

What is the key to make the cascade fall slower?

I know good pilots can make them stationary (not loosing altitude) and some even make it rise !

Just re-read the entire thread.

Thomas* wrote:

It surprises me how quick all the moves has to be made after each other in order to keep the rhythm.

Not if you do the 1 pop Cascade. Then it's a leisurely move. If you have fallen into the trap of the 3 pop Cascade then you've only yourself to blame

What is the key to make the cascade fall slower?

Your legs

In barely-there winds you can end up walking backwards, popping away stylishly with the kite still gently falling to earth.

There are two extremes of the Cascade:-
the Andy Preston "Tricky Flickery" sleazy method, single pops, gently descending, laid back
the Mathieu Mayet "EuroCup 2001 by aeolian" I will break you approach, multiple yanks, hauling the kite down out of the sky, manic

Both have their place but if you're still using the QPro then it excels at the former.

I know good pilots can make them stationary (not loosing altitude) and some even make it rise !

The Puddle and The Fountain - puddling is easy enough, just stop the Cascade from falling by adjusting the walk forward/back to suit. The Fountain is more difficult to do smoothly as you have to Half Axel gaining height (2 pop for me) and can be quite kite-specific.

Mike.

The Puddle and The Fountain - puddling is easy enough, just stop the Cascade from falling by adjusting the walk forward/back to suit. The Fountain is more difficult to do smoothly as you have to Half Axel gaining height (2 pop for me) and can be quite kite-specific.

I allso find that the timing is critical in this. to make it stationary or rise, just give the second pop a bit earlyer and a bit harder, that makes the kite not just pop out of the axel but allso gain hight.

Thanks, Mike.

Zippy8 wrote:

Just re-read the entire thread.

Thomas* wrote:

It surprises me how quick all the moves has to be made after each other in order to keep the rhythm.

Not if you do the 1 pop Cascade. Then it's a leisurely move. If you have fallen into the trap of the 3 pop Cascade then you've only yourself to blame

Is it possible to do a one pop cascade with the Qpro?...

Reg. 3 pop, I am trying the two pop method, thats big enough a challenge for me

What is the key to make the cascade fall slower?

Your legs

In barely-there winds you can end up walking backwards, popping away stylishly with the kite still gently falling to earth.

There are two extremes of the Cascade:-
the Andy Preston "Tricky Flickery" sleazy method, single pops, gently descending, laid back
the Mathieu Mayet "EuroCup 2001 by aeolian" I will break you approach, multiple yanks, hauling the kite down out of the sky, manic

Both have their place but if you're still using the QPro then it excels at the former.

Still, and I really like it, although I am very keen on a used Mantis

I know good pilots can make them stationary (not loosing altitude) and some even make it rise !

The Puddle and The Fountain - puddling is easy enough, just stop the Cascade from falling by adjusting the walk forward/back to suit. The Fountain is more difficult to do smoothly as you have to Half Axel gaining height (2 pop for me) and can be quite kite-specific.

Mike.

Thanks, for me its fine if I can just keep it stationary, Puddling, from then on I will target the fountain.

Aeri wrote:

The Puddle and The Fountain - puddling is easy enough, just stop the Cascade from falling by adjusting the walk forward/back to suit. The Fountain is more difficult to do smoothly as you have to Half Axel gaining height (2 pop for me) and can be quite kite-specific.

I allso find that the timing is critical in this. to make it stationary or rise, just give the second pop a bit earlyer and a bit harder, that makes the kite not just pop out of the axel but allso gain hight.

Thanks Aeri, it sounds easy.

I'll get back to you if it isn't

Thomas* wrote:

Is it possible to do a one pop cascade with the Qpro?...

Oh yes I even mentioned it in my review as something that I especially like.

Reg. 3 pop, I am trying the two pop method, thats big enough a challenge for me

For me the 2nd "pop" is more "pop and hold", pulling the kite back into position rather than letting it naturally recover itself. I still don't know where all the pops of a 3 pop actually go or whether or not all of them actually do anything.

Still, and I really like it, although I am very keen on a used Mantis

Like this one ?

Mike.

Zippy8 wrote:

Thomas* wrote:

Is it possible to do a one pop cascade with the Qpro?...

Oh yes I even mentioned it in my review as something that I especially like.

Failed to noticed that... (Couldn't find it re-reading your splendid review)

Reg. 3 pop, I am trying the two pop method, thats big enough a challenge for me

For me the 2nd "pop" is more "pop and hold", pulling the kite back into position rather than letting it naturally recover itself. I still don't know where all the pops of a 3 pop actually go or whether or not all of them actually do anything.

Still, and I really like it, although I am very keen on a used Mantis

.

Like this one ?

Exactly! Any opinions...

Thomas* wrote:

Failed to noticed that... (Couldn't find it re-reading your splendid review)

Yeah, yeah. Enough of the flattery.

There's no need for me to reel off a list of tricks now is there ? It does the business to the extent of the flyer's ability. But anyone using this kite in competition who doesn't include at least one sky-to-floor Cascade needs their head seeing to.

Exactly! Any opinions...

Ian has a review. I have a similar but symmetrical one with Nitro LEs (good upgrade). S'nice kite. Not going to find better made. Lots of tweaks to play with (if you like that sort of thing) but several presets that work and you can just stick to. It's not the kite for me so I'll be moving it along in the near future but it could well be "the kite" for someone else. £120 is highly reasonable.

Mike.

Zippy8 wrote:

Thomas* wrote:

Failed to noticed that... (Couldn't find it re-reading your splendid review)

Yeah, yeah. Enough of the flattery.

There's no need for me to reel off a list of tricks now is there ? It does the business to the extent of the flyer's ability. But anyone using this kite in competition who doesn't include at least one sky-to-floor Cascade needs their head seeing to.

Exactly! Any opinions...

Ian has a review. I have a similar but symmetrical one with Nitro LEs (good upgrade). S'nice kite. Not going to find better made. Lots of tweaks to play with (if you like that sort of thing) but several presets that work and you can just stick to. It's not the kite for me so I'll be moving it along in the near future but it could well be "the kite" for someone else. £120 is highly reasonable.

Mike.

Thanks. Hmmm you are letting the Mantis go...

I guess a part of this higly addictive hobby is to: step 1) buy more new kites , step 2) buy more second hand kites and reselling them

Zippy8 wrote:

Exactly! Any opinions...

Ian has a review.

FWIW glancing back through that review my opinion of the Mantis hasn't changed, well maybe its improved). Its still one of my favourite kites and stays in my 'A' bag. A nice soulful kite with a definite character of its own (do try before you buy if you can just in case that character isn't to your personal taste...).

Well worth £120

I just want to thank all the contributers to this amazingly informative thread. I've picked up many new tips from here and have a bucket load of practice notes to take with me on-field.

Ian Newham wrote:

Zippy8 wrote:

Exactly! Any opinions...

Ian has a review.

FWIW glancing back through that review my opinion of the Mantis hasn't changed, well maybe its improved). Its still one of my favourite kites and stays in my 'A' bag. A nice soulful kite with a definite character of its own (do try before you buy if you can just in case that character isn't to your personal taste...).

Well worth £120

Thanks Ian.

It's expensive to hang around in these forums instead of flying a kite. After reading your reviews I'd like to get the whole line up of Mantis'