Sport, Trick and Freestyle Kite Flying Forum

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SkyRags
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Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:33 am

So as an intermediate/beginner flyer...if I was to purchase an UL/SUL/VTD kite...what is the learning curve like compared to a STD?

What I mean is - what are the subtle differences? What tricks WONT be possible and what WILL be?

Because I do want a kite that extends my flying wind range but can only afford one probably - would you guys go for a VTD or a UL/SUL kite?
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
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Vee
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Re: Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:10 am

Go for an UL or SUL. Only because you'll be more inclined to go out when the winds are like that than when it's blowing a hoolie.
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Re: Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:01 am

Vee wrote:
Go for an UL or SUL. Only because you'll be more inclined to go out when the winds are like that than when it's blowing a hoolie.


A supersound reasoning :)

Does that mean Ill actually be able to pull off more tricks?
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
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Re: Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:24 am

SkyRags wrote:
Because I do want a kite that extends my flying wind range but can only afford one probably - would you guys go for a VTD or a UL/SUL kite?

You can extend an STD's wind range upwards by adding wind brakes, using heavier lines and stuffing the frame. The only way you'll extend it downwards will be by adding talent :wink:

SULs are fragile little buggers that have a disturbing tendency to break at inconvenient moments.

The traditional route is "buy the Standard, then the UL.... maybe the SUL or Vented".

Mike.
 
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SteveC
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Re: Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:12 am

Your best bet would probably be a good UL. It won't necessarily give you more tricks, but it should be able to do a full range of tricks in lower winds. A lot of the bespoke makers - certainly Benson and JoE - rate their UL model as the most versitile of the range. You will get a lot of use from a UL. In my (limited) experience of vented kites they don't give you that much extra usable range - maybe 3-4 mph of actual trickable wind. Once the wind gets over 16-18mph you are going to have to work hard to trick almost any kite well and generally speaking unless you have to fly - competitions etc - once a standard with air brakes gets too much you're probably better off going home or sticking a small foil or speed kite on and have fun ripping up the sky. Vents are expensive for the amount of use most people get from them.

SUL's are a different thing altogether. They need a completely different technique to other kites, gentle guiding rather than pop and pull and , as Mike said, they can be very fragile. Because they are are light they often lack inertia so the range of tricks they can do may be limited. There are also 2 types - you get the true no/low/indoors type like the Benson Innerspace or Skyburner Prodancer that will fly in a Gnat's fart and do great floaty 360's, 540's rotational type stuff but won't do pitchy tricks and you get others like the Talon SUL which will do a largely full range of tricks but needs a little more wind. They are not easy to fly well ( but look amazing when you can fly them well) and maybe something to try when you have a bit more experience.
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Re: Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:09 pm

Wise words Steve, although I have a slight quibble about the UL models being the most versatile in the Benson and JoE ranges.

The Talon UL is widely considered to be the best version of the Talon, however the wind range of the standard is higher and therefore in my view the most versatile.

The Deep Space standard has a much higher wind range than the UL and is much pitcher than the UL. The UL does do gloriously floaty flat spins, but requires an adjustment in inputs and timing for anything in the pitch axis. To me the standard is much more versatile.

I definitely see the UL being the logical next step after the standard. SULs tend to be an acquired taste and freestyle vents generally only work up to ~15mph (certainly in gusty inland winds).
 
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Re: Learning with UL and SUL and VTD

Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:43 am

Cheers everyone :)

This helps a decision immensely- I would most likely choose a lighter rather than a vented
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL