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Stephen Hoath
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Bridle Help

Mon May 06, 2013 6:11 pm

Hi all, i need some help from those of you who understand these things.

For about a year i have been playing around with a smaller version of our team kite trying to make it a little more tricky but still keep it's precision. Now, precision i can do and understand but as for tricks, i stopped learning when i mastered the axle. Well, at the time it was the only trick there was!

My problem. The kite flies well but will not stay in a fade. When i initiate the fade the kite pops onto it's back but then just bounces back into flight. The bridle is deliberately long to enable a fairly rapid roll-up but i can't help think that this is where the problem lies.

So, has anyone analysed the bridle properties of a kite that is rock solid in a fade?

Many thanks for your help. Maybe you can stop me pulling the last bits of my hair out!
Stephen Hoath
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mobius
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Re: Bridle Help

Mon May 06, 2013 8:28 pm

Might not actually be the bridle you want to adjust.. rather the weight balance of the nose versus the tail. Try adding a bit of tail weight.
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Re: Bridle Help

Tue May 07, 2013 1:05 am

Ooh, been there done that, never quite managed to nail a bridle fix.

Reverse turbo bridles help fade stability a bit, because the tow points sit fairly wide and hence the flying lines hang over the leading edges fairly wide in a fade. (As a bonus, they make initiating backspins a bit easier too).

Standoff length and position can have a significant effect on fade stability. For example, a kite with longer outer standoffs than inner standoffs (or vice versa) will have a significantly altered fade stability if you swap the inner and outer standoffs around - even if the standoffs are less than 1cm different in length, and they sit less than 10 cm apart. I found this out after dismantling a Nirvana to replace the nose, then realized on reassembly the standoffs were different lengths :oops:
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Re: Bridle Help

Sun May 12, 2013 12:56 am

Stephen Hoath wrote:
i stopped learning when i mastered the axle.

Although you stopped before you mastered how to spell it. :roll:

So, has anyone analysed the bridle properties of a kite that is rock solid in a fade?

Yes indeed. The main property you should be looking for is:- is it attached to a Matrix ? 8-[

More seriously though, when in the Fade just how close together are the bridle legs ? If they are clustered up by the nose then it'll be hard to control and might just be bouncing out. If they cross the LEs further out you'll get a better chance to stabilise the Fade.

Mike.
 
Stephen Hoath
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Re: Bridle Help

Mon May 13, 2013 7:54 am

Mike, knowing how to spell is not a problem i have ever been burdened with!

But....the tow points are well outside the nose because i need all the help i can get with back spins.

I have now moved the standoffs closer together but the wind at Ostend was ballistic so i didn't get a chance to test it.

The position of the tail weight has also been suggested as an issue. Has any one played with moving them up to the mid point between the cross spreader and the base of the spine?
Stephen Hoath
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Re: Bridle Help

Mon May 13, 2013 12:15 pm

The fade is a balancing act. The bridle will alter the balance point to a degree and maybe also the ease of control but the stability comes from the overall underlying balance.

Good fliers change this balance by small corrections in walking forwards or backwards or more subtle adjustments with their arms and so can probably fade most kites. The kites that are rock solid in fades have the balance set perfectly so no additional input is needed - obviously these are the best to learn upon.

If you think of a see-saw, moving the weight towards the balance point (middle) will have less of an effect in balance but might cause some weirdness in rotations.

If the nose rises up to easily you might need to add some counter weight by stuffing the top spreader with an insert.

If the nose constantly dips down then you need more tail weight.

If the kite is bouncing out it could also be that you are entering the fade too fast. You want to enter it such that you only just make it.
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Stephen Hoath
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Re: Bridle Help

Mon May 13, 2013 2:54 pm

Cheers Dave, are you suggesting that it is the workman not the tool? How very astute!

I will have to take it out again and look at what happens first, nose up or nose down then make some adjustments. Of course heavy handedness is also highly likely :biggrin:
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Re: Bridle Help

Mon May 13, 2013 3:06 pm

Stephen Hoath wrote:
Cheers Dave, are you suggesting that it is the workman not the tool? How very astute!

I will have to take it out again and look at what happens first, nose up or nose down then make some adjustments. Of course heavy handedness is also highly likely :biggrin:


Maybe! I know for myself going from a full size kite down to a smaller kite I have to re-learn all the movements - the inputs seem so small in comparison.
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Stephen Hoath
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Re: Bridle Help

Sat May 18, 2013 11:33 am

Well as a little up date to this, i finally got out in a wind i could cope with and had a play with the changes mentioned above.

The good news is the kite is now working really well in the fade. So, what was the solution?

The nominations were, tail weight, bridle setting, standoff position and pilot error....... and the winner was.....

Well, unsurprisingly it was a little of all of the above!

So, i moved the stadoff positions closer together which helped but not enough, i then moved them both out towards the wing tips which helped some more. Next i reduced the tail wait and moved it right to the tip of the tail. This helped a bit more. Then the bridle was moved out just a small amount and this helped again. Finally, i practiced a lot and paid attention to what was happening to the kite to make it bounce out.

The end result is one happy bunny so many thanks for all your input.
Stephen Hoath
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