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SkyRags
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The Learning Curve

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:55 am

The best teaching I have on hand is videos and forums

How I would love to be able to meet a proper trick enthusiast - but this is impossible and sad it would seem where I am

Has anyone learned strictly from video and trial and error? I wonder how long it took you?

Stunt kiting to me seems a real finesse oriented skill- not just in terms of tricks, but factors like understanding wind speed, line length, type of kite- subtleties as important as timing in tricks

I'm slowly beginning to realise this more and more- for example, I wanted to perform a yo-yo to show off to passing kids, but the wind just would not let up enough to pull a clean deep backflip

I know it's my skill level- but it's annoying to realise I'm probably trying a trick that increase in difficulty due to this lol
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
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Vee
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:09 am

Use your legs to adjust windspeed! Step, walk or run forward as appropriate. It's hard to learn at first, but it comes naturally after a bit.
Love Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Needs to fly more, now that I can.
 
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SkyRags
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:13 am

Vee wrote:
Use your legs to adjust windspeed! Step, walk or run forward as appropriate. It's hard to learn at first, but it comes naturally after a bit.


I've been discovering that in practicing the flare/pancake/540/fade setup

Arms just aren't enough
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
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SteveC
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:46 am

I've had to learn by myself as there aren't really any other fliers close to me. I've been flying about 4 years 2-3 hours most weeks when weather and family permit and I'm now fairly competant - I can't do all the tricks and I wouldn't enter Virtual freestyle, but on a good day I can put on a reasonable display at the local park for myself and the dog walkers.

Take small steps - get the stall, get the fade, get the flare they will lead into the lazy susans, flic flacs, 540's. Don't try for something like the Jacobs ladder straight away as you'll end up frustrated. Some tricks will come easy - I found I could do flic flacs pretty quickly, but 540's took a long long time and I've only just really mastered the backspin even though I've been doing JL's for a while.

Watch the videos again and again - really watch them!..often the inputs are very subtle and you don't always see them. Use your legs!! my biggest problem was standing rooted to the spot - you need to moveing backwards or forwards most of the time. Choose your weather - if you are trying to learn new trick wait until the wind is in your favour - you can do a lot of tricks in 14-15 mph winds but it's damn hard for a beginner! Work out in your head exactly what you need the kite to do to perform a trick, think it through, even make a little cardboard cut out and sit down to work out what you need to be pulling and when. If you are learning a big trick, say JL's, don't try and do it all in one, break it down into small sections fade-roll-backflip then backflip-half lazy- rotate into fade - practise each part seperately then when you are confident link both together.

You will get times when you really learn things quickly when everything just clicks into place and times when you don't seem to make any progress for weeks - just keep going as you will suddenly get a eureka moment and after that you'll wonder what the problem was. You will probably also find 'Nemesis' tricks - the ones, often reletively simple ones- that you just CANNOT get no matter how you try - mine was the back spin now it's the Comete! :-(

Best of all try and get a mate interested! theres nothing like friendly rivalry to improve your flying! 8)

Keep at it !! It really will come in time. ;)
Current Bag:- HQ Shadow, Spiderkites Zodarion, Flying Wings Soul, Old blue HQ Jive , 'PAW' modded HQ Maestro II, Delta Hawk,
 
adicakes
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:14 am

SkyRags wrote:
How I would love to be able to meet a proper trick enthusiast - but this is impossible and sad it would seem where I am


Melbourne is only a short, fairly cheap flight away. :)

SkyRags wrote:
Has anyone learned strictly from video and trial and error? I wonder how long it took you?


Yes, that's how it went for me, and of course I'm still learning. It took about 2 years for things to start coming together, 3 to really move ahead with the fun stuff.
 
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Yan
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:11 pm

SkyRags wrote:
Has anyone learned strictly from video and trial and error? I wonder how long it took you?



Friggin' ages! I take a couple of steps forward, then don't progress at all for months! It gets very frustrating and I find it can be difficult to stay motivated.

two things really helped me....
one - finding a kite I liked and sticking with it. I flew an SKD Seven exclusivly for over a year and learnt more in that time than I had in years before.

I also found entering VF helped alot. My first entrys were all rubbish (see here!) but it gave me a somthing to aim for and a chance to be part of somthing bigger than my local field!
Also having to score other peoples flying helps you look more carfully at what people are doing with their kite.

VF is an inclusive competition for the community and there is no minimum or maximum standard :wink:
 
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SkyRags
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Re: The Learning Curve

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:12 am

:shock: anything between 2-4 years so far...lol

At least I have a realistic appraisal now...

A good thing...cos it looks like its a thing Im doing for fun and not a brief fad...

As for...
Yan wrote:
two things really helped me....
one - finding a kite I liked and sticking with it. I flew an SKD Seven exclusivly for over a year and learnt more in that time than I had in years before
[/quote]

I dont really know what a good kite for me really...the one Kevin sent me I guess is very well suited to me...its certainly helped me progress faster than anything I had thats for sure...

Not sure when Im supposed to 'move up'

I would consider a thourough understanding of my two 'nemesis' moves currently - the snap stall and the side slide - to be a graduation day

I will try to focus on moving around more...its quite funny when I know EXACTLY what Im doing wrong...for example, when I go to flare and I forget to move forward...nose dart BANG!
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
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Hawkerhunter
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Re: The Learning Curve

Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:16 pm

I think you will never stop learning. Kite flying is a difficult skill and you will hit many brick walls. I think that doing a trick is one thing but doing it consistantly well is another. You will find that on occasions you will spend months just working on a single move.
Steve

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Talon UL, Talon standard(x2), Talon vented, Talon SUL Prism Q Pro, Elixir, Zephyr, E3, E2, Hypnotist, Nexus, 3D, Micron


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SkyRags
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Re: The Learning Curve

Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:15 pm

I think what I find the toughest point without live input is wondering if the problem in learning a trick is either the kites problem or my skill...

Fir example, my cheapie kite before I received my Charisma could NEVER perform an Axel due to the frame warping from the line pops
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
ian muhamad
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Re: The Learning Curve

Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:13 am

I'm lucky to have a few good trick pilots in Singapore. I ask them to guide me when we flew together.

I do watched videos and make myself a trainer kite to see how the kite reacts in tricks , where the lines go but the best is still spending more time flying.

Here's my ugly trainer kite. :cool:


Image
 
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Ara Ararauna
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Re: The Learning Curve

Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:55 pm

Hi SkyRags,

I'm another one with a lonely kite-life. Seems like stunt kites were very much in fashion in Barcelona in the 90's and beginning of 2000's but now they've all vanished... :(

I've been flying for about 1.5 years. Started with the Nexus, went up to the Soul got a lot of frustration, went to the Talon UL and learnt a lot, went back to the Soul and loved it and now I'm alternating these last two (and thinking on buying an SUL).

In this time I have also experienced this thing about being some months suffering a sterile learning process and all of a sudden a trick that you had no idea of why it wouldn't work, appears as clear as crystal. Unfortunately I'm currently in a sterile (or even regressive) mode... :(

Since I tend to be meticulous but have not sufficient patience to stay on one thing for hours on end, what tends to work for me is to have a set of three or four things I try and keep changing from one to the other. Otherwise, if I say too long on one thing I get saturated and start doing even worse. So then I rapidly move onto another thing and go back to that some other time later.

This, for example, has allowed me to do the 540 before I can snap stall, fade or slide !
The first trick I really learnt and on both sides(!) was the half axel. I think it is a trick that is on the easy side but that gives you a lot of insight on what it means to give slack, to coordinate both hands and to watch for the turns and flips.

Talking to people in forums has helped me a lot. SteveC has been one of my guardian angels (thanks!), so listen to his advice.

I like Yan's advice of aiming for the VF. It had not occurred to me, but also I though that was for "professionals". So now that I know it is open to everyone I think I will join them and make myself the laughing stock of the group... :P :? :-D

I like ian's trainer kite ! I think I'll make myself one... :-D
In any case I do think that stopping to think on how the kite turns and moves is important.

Here are some of my videos so that you can see what I can do after ~18 months:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egq4Yfxdm0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewEfQ9NK4o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EvXsUenOjQ

So I look forward to seeing your videos. As much as it is difficult to record oneself, it is incredibly useful to see oneself doing the monkey style while exaggeratedly gesticulating to do a trick that the experts do by barely moving an eyebrow... :-p
But whatever goes through your mind, DON'T GIVE UP!

Cheers.
In my bag...
Duals: No-name (No-brand), Nexus (Prism), Talon UL (JoE), Soul (Flying Wings), LeQuartz (own build), Illusion Classic (Prism), Aura 4.7Oz (Sky Burner), Sixth Sense STD (Krijn)
Singles: Conyne STD (my design)
 
Stan Doff
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Re: The Learning Curve

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:10 pm

Ara Ararauna wrote:
I like Yan's advice of aiming for the VF. It had not occurred to me, but also I though that was for "professionals". So now that I know it is open to everyone I think I will join them and make myself the laughing stock of the group... :P :? :-D

.


My sole VF entry from vf13 in 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZjwP1goUrY
 
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Ara Ararauna
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Re: The Learning Curve

Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:01 pm

Stan Doff wrote:
Ara Ararauna wrote:
I like Yan's advice of aiming for the VF. It had not occurred to me, but also I though that was for "professionals". So now that I know it is open to everyone I think I will join them and make myself the laughing stock of the group... :P :? :-D

.


My sole VF entry from vf13 in 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZjwP1goUrY


Nice! Well done!
Why didn't you continue to make contributions?

BTW very nice Gem and music.
Cheers.
In my bag...
Duals: No-name (No-brand), Nexus (Prism), Talon UL (JoE), Soul (Flying Wings), LeQuartz (own build), Illusion Classic (Prism), Aura 4.7Oz (Sky Burner), Sixth Sense STD (Krijn)
Singles: Conyne STD (my design)
 
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SkyRags
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:58 am

Ara Ararauna wrote:
Since I tend to be meticulous but have not sufficient patience to stay on one thing for hours on end, what tends to work for me is to have a set of three or four things I try and keep changing from one to the other. Otherwise, if I say too long on one thing I get saturated and start doing even worse. So then I rapidly move onto another thing and go back to that some other time later.Cheers.


Ah ha! - yes....that totally happens to me - when I realise that happening I know its time to pull the lines in

I must give MASSIVE thanks to the members here who have contributed to my early kite flying

Especially Kevin and his gift of a Charisma and videos as well as those who have sent me Kite Notes and other teaching material and those who sent me valuable information for my Assignment - I received an 88% mark on the assignment so very happy with that

With a community like this - the kite industry will remain a small, but strong market player. It can only grow - not ever shrink I imagine
In the bag : KaoS Kites; Charisma, Benson SuperFly, Jest of Eve Talon UL
 
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Re: The Learning Curve

Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:06 pm

For me, I improved when I put some thought into what legs of the bridle do what. Maybe you've done this before, but just hold the kite (as in with your hands, not flying) in certain tricking positions, like a backflip or a fade, and see which legs make an input, and which are slack.

For example, from a fade, you see that it is (mostly) the lower-outhaul which controls a backspin. In a backflip, the upper-outhaul is used for lazies. Wrapping the kite uses the inhaul and lower-outhaul, while axels use both outhauls. I found thinking about what is slack or not on the bridle made me a better flyer.
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