Fractured Axel

Stink_Finger · Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:45 pm

I've been practicing this for a few months now & can manage to pull off probably 5 or 6 'rungs', However, I'm not sure what I've learnt to do is strictly a JL!

In the thread about JL's on a DS (that's what I'm flying) the inputs are described as starting from a fade then poping one line to perform a kind of barrel roll then pulling both lines to get into the turtle position. Then a half lazy and finally an even pull to return to the fade. That's exactly what I do and as I say I'm getting 5-6 rungs. But... is that actually a true JL?

According to this description there is no 'barrel roll' after the fade. What should follow is a 180 degree flat spin into a turtle with the lines over the nose of the kite...

Would the first definition of a JL count in a TP event?

bryan beasley · Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:27 pm

If it is entered from a FADE (belly up, nose toward the pilot), the kite is rotated approximately 180° so that it is belly up, nose away as in a TURTLE, but with the lines still over the leading edges and coming from under the kite. The kite is then rolled on the pitch axis so that the nose swings down and around a full 360°, into a true TURTLE

Right first time.

For it to be absolute though, you'll need to alternate left and right hand inputs for your barrel roll (half backspin) and lazy rotations.

Bryan

SAW · Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:30 pm

you'll need to alternate left and right hand inputs for your barrel roll (half backspin) and lazy rotations.

I've just started learning these and found out by trial and error that I had to do opposite inputs

Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:56 am

bryan beasley wrote:
For it to be absolute though, you'll need to alternate left and right hand inputs for your barrel roll (half backspin) and lazy rotations.

Is this still true? I thought the latest TP defs disregarded the alternation?

Zippy8 · Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:32 am

The original description of the Jacob's Ladder called for an interrupted/half Backspin and 360° flips of the kite. Over the years this "Backspin" has mutated into a Barrel Roll and 180°-then-360° flips 'cos that's more to the liking of modern kites which don't do the flat Backspin that this trick really requires. Originally this sort of not-quite-a-Jacob's-Ladder would have been a Multi Mobius, I suppose.

Here are two older videos to show a Mobius and then a modern retelling of the Jacob's Ladder.
Prism Elixir Mobius
R-Sky Nirvana Ours des Prairies

Even Martin Madsen's excellent video tutorial is the "wrong" version.

Roy Reed's animation of the proper Jacob's Ladder shows what should be happening for TP.

Mike.

Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:53 am

According to the last published TP-USA definitions

The direction of the rotations does not matter.

http://fracturedaxel.co.uk/wiki/tiki-in ... obs+Ladder

Tricksparty.nl doesn't mention direction either:
http://www.tricksparty.nl/tricks/pages/ ... ladder.htm

Ian Newham · Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:00 pm

Zippy8 wrote:
The original description of the Jacob's Ladder
...
Roy Reed's animation of the proper Jacob's Ladder shows what should be happening for TP.

<pedant>
Isn't the JL attributed to Tim rather than Andy, allegedly on an OS at Blackheath 98?

Now the OS didn't do flat backspins, just barrel rolls (credited abw on OS, pre-Gem) so if Tim did them first it seems logical that he did them with barrel rolls. :-k

</pedant>

Tim - stop lurking, what do you say? :wink:

ISTR some like Roy's animation appear on the SL7 video so they can be done but agred you need something that BS's very flat.

RoyReed · Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:34 pm

This from ABW's website:

The last scene of the movie ends with a classic example of just such a trick, the Jacob's Ladder. From a fade, this is half a backspin or barrel roll, followed by a back flip, half a lazy susan, then flip up back into the fade for the next back spin or barrel roll. For it to be a real, proper Jacob's Ladder, you absolutely have to go both ways. Otherwise it's just a multiple half-ladder, which is still pretty impressive, but not the whole thing.
Jacob's Ladder

Incidentally, this trick was invented by Tim Benson around 1999, although others claim to have independently invented it (as is often the case). I was watching him doing it at the 1999 kite festival on Weston Super-Mare beach and was instantly reminded of the toy called the Jacob's Ladder made of blocks of wood that always appear to be tumbling down but never actually going anywhere. So that's where the name came from, and although others may have come up with the same idea, that was when the Jacob's Ladder was born. Tim gave birth to it and I named it. A Jacob's Ladder is also the name for the cool lightning machines you see in old Frankenstein-type films where sparks of electricity rise up between two wires. Either way, it's a cool name. Now get out there and practice it!

Ian Newham · Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:31 pm

I saw that too, since he's been quoted as the source I had a look to see if abw's backspins really were flat and they weren't, in fact he says himself:

The last scene of the movie ends with a classic example of just such a trick, the Jacob's Ladder. From a fade, this is half a backspin or barrel roll, followed by

I know its a bit anal, but I've seen this discussion 2 or 3 times now, how it should be a flat backspin to a 360 flip and that a barrel roll isn't proper form. I've yet to see a 'proper' one done except on a Level 7.

As to when; I know I was doing them on my OS by the time I had a try of that grey Gem prototype at Blackheath in 99, I must have picked them up from somewhere? ISTR Andy Phelps said he'd seen Tim doing them the previous year on an OS so maybe that's where I saw it?

bryan beasley · Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:34 pm

Andy S wrote:
bryan beasley wrote:
For it to be absolute though, you'll need to alternate left and right hand inputs for your barrel roll (half backspin) and lazy rotations.

Is this still true? I thought the latest TP defs disregarded the alternation?

Yup, you're spot on. Rotation direction don't actually matter any more, but still... Didn't we have a conversation a few years back where it was concluded that a full rung was one time one hand doing the spinning, one time the other?

I'll check this next time out, but I'm pretty sure that if you r/h barrel roll - flip - r/h 1/2 lazy - flip, you wont twist you're lines. It's when you use the other hand for the other rotation that it'll start binding up after a bit - unless you alternate. (Jeez, this sounded ever-so simple in my head) Anyhoot 's allways worth learning stuff multi-directional or you'll end up all right hand heavy (unless you're left handed) (enough brackets allready FFS)

Bryan

seales · Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:10 am

Yup, always popping with the right hand won't twist the lines over a full 'rung' (clockwise half barrel roll + anti-clockwise half lazy with respect to the flyer). It's definately easier in the muti form as the setup's always the same between rungs, whereas when cascading the 'rungs' an opposite tilt is needed to setup each backspin.

I was trying to practise the r-r-l-l-r-r form recently and consistency really dropped for me compared to the usual. Bryan, is that what you meant by 'alternating left and right' for absolute form - would it be a factor between TP 'good' and 'excellent'?

bryan beasley · Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:05 pm

Nah, direction makes no difference for TP scoring anymore. 's more an aesthetic thing or technicality or some-such.

Bryan

Fractured Axel

Correct Jacobs Ladder sequence

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